RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Sprutorch9 on Wednesday 27 November 24 16:12 GMT (UK)
-
Hello, Everyone!
This is a longshot, but I am trying to help a cousin locate information on his paternal grandfather.
My cousin's father was born in Sheppey, Kent, in 1918. His mother was 20 years old, unwed and came down from her home in Glasgow to have the child. On the birth certificate it lists the father as James Dick and his occupation as a riveter. We assume that James was a riveter on the Clyde and that he was about the same age. Since Sheppey also had dockyards, we don't know if James also came south or not.
The child, my cousin's father, was given his mother's maiden name and not the last name of Dick. This is sensitive for my cousin as he also has the same last name, so I don't want to print that on this forum.
I am having a hard time locating this James Dick among the many, many James Dicks in the Glasgow area around the 19-teens.
My question is: does anyone know of a riveter at the Glasgow dockyards around 1918 named James Dick or would anyone have any suggestions to help with this search? I have Ancestry but haven't yet made a connection there and until we can find more information on James, it may be a waste of money and time to search through Scotlandspeople.
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
-
My cousin's father was born in Sheppey, Kent, in 1918. His mother was 20 years old, unwed and came down from her home in Glasgow to have the child. On the birth certificate it lists the father as James Dick and his occupation as a riveter. We assume that James was a riveter on the Clyde and that he was about the same age. Since Sheppey also had dockyards, we don't know if James also came south or not.
An unmarried father's name could only be entered on the birth certificate if he was present at the time the birth was registered. So he must have come south with her.
The birth was indexed on the GRO under both surnames since both appeared on the birth certificate.
-
Thank you so much for that information, JenB!
Just that bit of information is extremely welcome.
-
Is it definitely the case that she came south to have the baby? What is the evidence?
Might she have been living there already - in which case he might not have been from Glasgow but a local lad?
-
My cousin, who lives in a different country than I do, has the birth certificate.
We wonder that also and I am still searching for proof. However, she did go back to Glasgow with the child, and he was raised with her family.
So, it doesn't seem to have been something that the family wanted to hide although my cousin's father told him he spent much time w/ his maternal grandmother which makes me wonder if he became a false 'adopted' child.
I have looked for marriage records, but again, there are more than one with both surnames. However, the child was raised under his mother's maiden name, so we doubt there was a marriage. I'm still searching for a marriage record just in case.
Maybe James died or just left.
-
1921 census has a James Dick living in Sheerness, Sheppey.
SS
added
His possible birth going by details in 1921
Births Mar 1897
Dick James Wandsworth 1d 722
DICK, JAMES mother's maiden name FERRIS
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 722
-
OH! How wonderful!
Does it show his age?
I do not live in the UK and could not find a census there in Sheppey w/ that name on Ancestry.
-
Thank you. That helps tremendously.
-
The 1921 census yet isn't available on Ancestry.
We aren't allowed to do 1921 census look-ups, sadly, but I can say that this chap wasn't a riveter in 1921.
-
That's why I couldn't find it on Ancestry.
You say it says Wendsworth. Is that where he was from originally?
And, he is not a riveter on census?
-
1921 census has a James Dick living in Sheerness, Sheppey.
He wasn’t actually ‘living’ there. Given that Sheerness was a major seaport he might just have happened to be passing through in 1921.
He could have been very far away in 1918.
Trying to hint at his occupation without actually saying what it was. But he wasn’t a riveter.
-
Sorry. Wandsworth.
Got it.
Thank you all.
I am taking that information you have given to me and going to check with my cousin and do additional searching.
I'll let you know what I find.
Again, thank you so much for all your help.
-
Whilst there is no definite evidence this is "Your James Dick" if you have a subscription to Ancestry then there is this public tree giving some comprehensive details about him. He had lots of siblings. If your cousin has done a DNA test the names on this tree may hold a connection.
SS
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/170778939/person/432213180861/facts?_phsrc=Udx4404&_phstart=successSource
-
Thank you for this 'Softly Softly'. Yes, we have both done DNA test so we will check that out immediately.
Thank you.
-
The Royal Navy record card for a James Dick born 1st January 1897 in Clapham (which was in Wandsworth Registration District) was available for free download from the National Archives.
The place of birth fits that on the 1921 census.
The card shows that he joined the Navy in 1915 before which he was an office boy/messenger. He served in the Navy for the remainder of WW1.
His location in 1921 matches with that on the 1921 census.
So I’m (sadly) inclined to think that this isn’t your man.
-
Well found JenB, he can be eliminated
SS
-
Yes, I am looking at his military record now which shows which ships he served on and the dates.
Doesn't look like a match for our James Dick but double-checking anyway by having my cousin check his DNA matches for Dicks on Ancestry.
Thanks anyway for searching.
-
Do you know the child’s exact date of birth?
-
4 Dec 1918
-
There is a military record for a James Dick resident 8.Russell Street, Partick, Glasgow.
His occupation Rivetter 12774 KOSB
He was discharged after a very short service.
His father was William and he could be on the 1901 census as an apprentice riveter living in Govan.
May be too old though born c 1885 and it is amazing how many of the same name are around so its a very long shot.
Cathy
-
There is a military record for a James Dick resident 8.Russell Street, Partick, Glasgow.
His occupation Rivetter 12774 KOSB
He was discharged after a very short service.
His father was William and he could be on the 1901 census as an apprentice riveter living in Govan.
May be too old though born c 1885 and it is amazing how many of the same name are around so its a very long shot.
Cathy
Info only based on last post
208, Castlebank Street, Govan, Partick, Lanarkshire, Scotland
William Dick Head Married 43 Shipyard labourer b Partick, Lanarkshire
Mary Dick Wife Married 41 b Partick, Lanarkshire
James Dick Son Single 18 Appce rivetter Partick, Lanarkshire
William N Dick Son - 16 Rivet heater b Partick, Lanarkshire
SS
-
This very well could be him. It certainly matches the Rivetter occupation.
I am looking at his military record right now and I notice the witness was someone named Campbell, and that name connects to the Dick name for my cousin's family.
And a 19-year-old girl might easily have been attracted to an older man.
I have only sat down a bit ago at the computer so will do some extra checking, however, this one looks like a very possible lead.
I'll let everyone know what I can find out.
And yes, I was taken aback at how many James Dicks there were, also.
Thank you, Cathy!
-
Had a few credits, James Dicks birth. Parents married 1881,
SS
-
softly softly, I am overwhelmed by your generosity to help me as I am sure my cousin will be.
I cannot put into words how thankful I am to everyone that has taken their time and effort to search and find information from the past for my cousin who has long wondered who his grandfather was.
I know he will be eternally grateful to all of you.
-
Should have added this to last post, birth of his brother who appears with him in 1901 census.
SS
-
1891 census
58, Crawford Street, Govan, Partick, Lanarkshire, Scotland
William Dick Head Widower 32 Ship yard labourer b Govan, Lanarkshire
James Dick Son - 8 Scholar b Govan, Lanarkshire
William Dick Son - 6 Scholar b Govan, Lanarkshire
Jane Nicholson Mother-in-law Widow 71 Housekeeper Glasgow, Lanarkshire
William Duncanson Visitor Unmarried Male 19 Shipyard labourer b Govan, Lanarkshire
SS
-
Again, I cannot thank you enough, softly softly.
-
I really don’t want to seem like a ‘wet blanket’ but I wouldn’t want to conclude that this is your man, simply because he had the right name and occupation and happened to come from the same area as the mother.
He might be the right person, but where’s the hard evidence?
The mother might have moved south long before and met and had a child by a totally different James Dick from the south of England who might have been working at the big naval dockyards in Sheerness.
Sorry……I think you need to be cautious about this.
-
Yes, JenB, I am still double-checking everything I can to make sure this is correct.
There seems to be an incredible amount of James Dicks in the Uk and beyond, so I do know to be most cautious on something like this.
Thank you.
-
I really don’t want to seem like a ‘wet blanket’ but I wouldn’t want to conclude that this is your man, simply because he had the right name and occupation and happened to come from the same area as the mother.
He might be the right person, but where’s the hard evidence?
The mother might have moved south long before and met and had a child by a totally different James Dick from the south of England who might have been working at the big naval dockyards in Sheerness.
Sorry……I think you need to be cautious about this.
I agree totally JenB
SS
-
First, I would like to thank all of you who have been so kind in my search for James Dick.
That is why I am so embarrassed to say that my distant cousin has just contacted me to say that the information he had given me on his grandfather was incorrect. Apparently, my cousin had misplaced his father's birth certificate and just received a replacement copy. He truly had believed that his grandfather was a James Dick who was a rivetter.
However, it was not James Dick, a rivetter, but actually a THOMAS DICK who was a pneumatic driller working for a private firm in Sheerness.
My cousin sent a copy of the birth certificate to me via email attachment, and it is definitely Thomas and not James.
Therefore, my deepest apologies to all who offered their time and effort to help me. I would have never posted if I believed for one moment that the information I had was incorrect.
-
Not to worry, glad you found what you were looking for.
SS
-
Thank you.
My poor cousin was highly embarrassed to tell me about his mistake.
I just wanted to apologize. I know that people who helped me on Rootschat would wonder if I had ever found James.
At least I have the correct name now to start a new search.