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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: garlands on Monday 25 November 24 16:52 GMT (UK)
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George OLLIFFE m Thomasina GOOD in Bandon in 1851.
In 1871, they were living in Southwark.
Both give their birth place as Ireland, George in 1826 and Thomasina in 1831.
I've been unable to find their birth/baptisms. Can anyone help, please?
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They were both from Cork per the 1861 census (RG9/315 page 36, folio 169)
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Just found on Family Search that George's father was Robert OLLIFFE, and the exact date of his marriage was 08 Jul 1851, in Brinny, Brandon.
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Marriage return image:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1851/09403/5406341.pdf
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Fantastic!
Many thanks
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On the marriage record, both groom and bride gave their residence as Brinny Parish.
https://www.townlands.ie/cork/brinny1/
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George OLLIFFE m Thomasina GOOD in Bandon in 1851.
In 1871, they were living in Southwark.
Both give their birth place as Ireland, George in 1826 and Thomasina in 1831.
I've been unable to find their birth/baptisms. Can anyone help, please?
Just found on Family Search that George's father was Robert OLLIFFE, and the exact date of his marriage was 08 Jul 1851, in Brinny, Brandon.
RCB (Yellow) - Original records held by the Representative Church Body Library, Churchtown, Dublin 14
Brinny
Cork Diocese
Cork County - Baptisms 1797-2008, Marriages 1797-2004, Deaths Burials 1797-2001
https://www.churchofireland.org/cmsfiles/pdf/AboutUs/library/registers/ParishRegisters/PARISHREGISTERS.pdf (May 2024)
Edited
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Many thanks
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A name search of church records on Irish Genealogy has drawn a blank, and, although I can find a list of parishes I can find no way of searching for individual records in a particular parish. What am I failing to do?
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The IrishGenealogy website allows baptism and marriage searches of many Catholic Parishes in county Cork (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?namefm=&namel=&exact=&name2fm=&name2l=&location=&yyfrom=&yyto=&diocese=CORK+%26+ROSS+(RC)&parish=¢ury=&decade=&sort=&pageSize=100&ddBfrom=&mmBfrom=&yyBfrom=&ddMfrom=&mmMfrom=&yyMfrom=&ddDfrom=&mmDfrom=&yyDfrom=&ddBto=&mmBto=&yyBto=&ddMto=&mmMto=&yyMto=&ddDto=&mmDto=&yyDto=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&member0=&member1=&member2=&member3=&member4=&member5=&member6=&member7=&member8=&member9=&namef0=&namef1=&namef2=&namef3=&namef4=&namef5=&namef6=&namef7=&namef8=&namef9=&namel0=&namel1=&namel2=&namel3=&namel4=&namel5=&namel6=&namel7=&namel8=&namel9=&event=&keyword=&submit=Search), however no Church of Ireland parishes are included on the site for Co. Cork.
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I believe that I have found George's elder brother, Robert, in an extract from the 1851 Census which was made in 1919. In the hope that details might enable someone to identify their father, Robert (ca 1805) and his marriage, herewith details of the two families:-
1851 (mostly) 1871
Robert OLLIFFE 1822 George OLLIFFE 1826
Mary nee FARMER 1825 Thomasina nee GOOD 1833
married 1843 in Cork married 1851 in Cork
George 1844 London Lydia Maria 1854 London
Robert 1845 Robert 1856
Joseph 1847 George 1859
Lydia Maria 1849 Mary Ann 1861
Joseph 1863
Mary Elizabeth 1855 Edward 1865
Benjamin 1857 Robert 1867
William 1869
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I notice that both families have a daughter Lydia Mary.
Have you investigated the death of Lydia Olliffe in Whitechapel district in 1862? according to GRO she was aged 71 when she died.
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No, but I shall do so
Thanks
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Lydia Maria hasn't led anywhere yet, but the search has brought up the following baptism:-
21 Nov 1822 Jane dr of Michael & Elizabeth OLLIFFE in Ballymodan
Ballymodan appears to include Bandon, which is where George married Thomasina GOOD in 1851, so Jane must surely be related in some way to Robert (1822) and George (1826), but, how? I assume that Michael would have been born ca 1800, so, could he be a brother of Robert (c 1805)?
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It looks like Michael was born ca 1790 because
16 Apr 1811 Michael OLLIFFE m Elizabeth STEVENS in Innishannon
Innishannon is only 3m from Bandon, further evidence of his probable family connection, but I cannot find his baptism.
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Two further OLLIFFE families, both at St Finbar's in Cork. 12 baptisms 1773-1787 with many 'family' names: Lydia, Joseph, Benjamin, Robert. Of particular interest is:-
06 May 1787 Robert to John & Rebecca
considerably earlier than I was expecting, but could he be George's father after 39 years of marriage, perhaps by then with a second wife? Certainly, I cannot find another Robert in County Cork or anywhere near timewise.
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This would all need to be verified as all submitted trees do but looks promising-
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/9V1W-WN1
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Thank you. Lots of info from FamilySearch, but I disagree with many of their dates.
I thought that the spouse of Robert (ca 1805) would be Lydia Maria XXXX because of the number of occurrences of those names in later generations, but how can one be sure without a marriage record?
I need to have a good look at the F-S data tomorrow
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It's a wonderful tree, and I'd love to accept it, but I'm having difficulty verifying any of the details using FindMyPast and F-S.
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Find My Past and Family Search probably aren't the first places I'd start searching for Irish records, although I have sometimes found the newspaper on FindMyPast useful.
Had another look at that family tree, in particular the start of it with Robert Olliffe and wife Lydia. I then cross-checked the details of Robert's family from records on Irish Genealogy (both civil and church records)- details confirmed in red.
Robert Olliffe (1785-1845) m. Lydia Maria Seymour (1781-1862)
Death: Lydia Olliffe 1862 (age 71) Whitechapel dist.
1. William (1812-1877 Dublin) m.(1849 Cork) Elizabeth Hornibrook
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1849/09367/5392179.pdf (baker, father Robert, wool comber)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1877/020532/7205074.pdf
a. Sarah Anne (c1853) https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/view/?record_id=35f0da5162-7968
b. Elizabeth (c1855) https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/view/?record_id=35f0da5162-8629
c. Charlotte (c1858) https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/view/?record_id=35f0da5162-9429
d. William Henry (c1859) https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/view/?record_id=35f0da5162-9962
2. Anne (1815-1817)
3. Benjamin (1817-1827)
4. Robert (1819-1881) m.(1843 Cork) Mary Farmer (1825)
5. George (1821-1884) m.(1851 Cork) Thomasina Good (1833)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1851/09403/5406341.pdf (railway constabulary, father Robert, wool comber)
6. Lydia Seymour (1824-1895 Mass.) m.(1850 Cork) Peter Williams
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1850/09387/5399961.pdf (father Robert, farmer)
Death: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FH8P-QFS?lang=en (parents- Robert Olliffe & Lydia Seymore)
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/180643035/lydia-seymour-williams
7. Elizabeth (1825-1893)
8. Thomas (1827)
9. Susan (1828-1829)
10. Edward (1831-1891 Cork) m.(1854) Mary Ann Good
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1854/09464/5429432.pdf (age 22, father Robert, farmer)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1892/06040/4720415.pdf
Cork Constitution, 31 Dec.1892- funeral to Brinny
This might be something you want to make a note of in case you can later make a connection-
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/271110969/john-oliffe
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That's a heck of a lot of work! Thank you for your time and effort.
I already have #4, marriage of Robert to Mary FARMER, and #5, marriage of George to Thomasina GOOD, but the rest is all new to me.
Thank you again.
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aghadowey
According to the Family Tree:-
Robert Olliffe (1785-1845) m. Lydia Maria Seymour (1781-1862)
I've just looked at the PR record dated 31 Mar 1850 of the marriage of Lydia Seymour OLLIFFE to Peter WILLIAMS which was witnessed by her father, Robert, who'd been dead for 5 years!
I don't usually attach much significance to burials, but this instance only adds to my hesitation to accept the veracity of this 'tree', much thought I should like to accept it.
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No, that's not what the marriage says-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1850/09387/5399961.pdf
Lydia's father was Robert Olliffe and the witness was a Robert Olliffe but it doesn't say that the witness was her father. The witness is likely to be her brother Robert.
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O K - that makes sense
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The 'Tree' discovered by Aghadowey lists 10 children of Robert OLLIFFE, and I've been working my way through them in the hope of finding information on Robert's wife. Nothing until:-
6. Lydia Seymour (1824-1895 Mass)
Taking this to mean that she died in Massachusetts in 1895, and knowing that she married Peter WILLIAMS, I searched for a death record and found:-
Lydia Seymour (Olliffe) Williams
birth 24 May 1824 Ireland
death 14 Jun 1895 Quincy, Mass
daughter of Robert and Lydia (Seymour) Olliffe
wife of Peter Williams
married 31 March 1850 Inishcarra, Cork
Ticks all the boxes!
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That's the death I linked in reply #19 ;)
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Hello,
Much of the information you have been referring to on Family Search has been provided by me and you'll see that I almost always provided a 'Source' with image along with the information I attach, and you'll see my username 'smacguf' where I do. I would be leery of accepting information you find on Family Search without 'Source' information provided, particularly by "Phyllis Hobbs_1'. I have had communication with Phyllis to request source information for many dates she has attached to this Olliffe family tree and her reply to me was "I don't know". That said, some of the dates are actually quite fitting, however I don't accept these until I see where they've come from, even if that happens to be family notes, such as old bible entries, notes on old photos etc..
The key to learning more about Robert Olliffe and Lydia Maria Seymour I believe will be within the Brinny Parish Transcripts, which are currently held in Dublin if I remember correctly. These transcripts are NOT available online unfortunately at this time.
George Olliffe and Thomasine Good are my 2nd great grandparents through my biological father, who was an Olliffe and I have been tracing this family since the early 2000's. I have much more, but speculative information regarding Olliffes (also Oliffe, Olive, Auliffe etc.) from areas surrounding Brinny, such as 'Little Silver' (Kilbrogan parish), Kilpatrick (Brinny), Clashanimud (Brinny) and Lissanisky (Knockavilly parish).
As mentioned in this thread there are a number of Olliffes found in the St. Finbarr's parish transcripts with dates that are also very fitting. Unfortunately there is little evidence to verify a connection. I've noted that there is a small part of St. Finbarr's parish that is separate from the main parish in Cork City and that is within close proximity to Brinny and Knockavilly parishes.
I'd love to hear from anyone researching this Olliffe family who wishes to collaborate, share or even debate findings.
Shawn
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Shawn,
Thank you for all the work you've done. I agree with the points you make.
Unlike you, I am not related to the OLLIFFE family. I've researched both mine and my wife's families as far as I can, but I enjoy the 'hunt' so I'm helping a very good friend, who was adopted at birth into that family. I'm also following her natural family, but that's another story.
If you think I might be able to help, I should be delighted to co-operate, but I am very much an amateur.
George
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I notice that both families have a daughter Lydia Mary.
Have you investigated the death of Lydia Olliffe in Whitechapel district in 1862? according to GRO she was aged 71 when she died.
Yes, this is Lydia Olliffe the widow of Robert Olliffe. The family left Ireland sometime after the famine and settled in this area of (London) England. You'll find Lydia in the 1861 census residing with her daughter "Bessie" (nickname for Elizabeth) and son-in-law John Burchill in Tower Hamlets "mother in law". Lydia died and was buried in Tower Hamlets in 1862. I've provided images of both census and burial in 'Sources' for Lydia Maria Seymour here:
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/sources/L27J-9LW
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Shawn,
Thank you for all the work you've done. I agree with the points you make.
Unlike you, I am not related to the OLLIFFE family. I've researched both mine and my wife's families as far as I can, but I enjoy the 'hunt' so I'm helping a very good friend, who was adopted at birth into that family. I'm also following her natural family, but that's another story.
If you think I might be able to help, I should be delighted to co-operate, but I am very much an amateur.
George
Thanks for your quick reply George. I understand what it means to help others with the 'hunt'. I've been researching my own family history since the early 1990's, and then discovered who my biological father was in late 1990's, and I've been on that trail since. When I've exhausted that search I often move on to helping others as well. With years of experience it has become a much loved hobby and pastime that often leads me to looking at many of the families tied to the same localities. You might be surprised by the insight gained when becoming familiar with not only one particular family, but others as well in these communities. Local histories are also very helpful to gain insight. The picture broadens and sometimes unexpected gleanings present a clearer picture.
If you look closely at the 'Sources' and 'Memories' files I've attached to both Robert Olliffe and Lydia Seymour, there is much more to see with regards to local names and neighboring plots. Of course this is time consuming but I've cropped and modified images so the information can be seen as clear as possible. The number of hours I've spent might be unimaginable to some as most people would not have the time to do this. It's nice to see that people are looking at what I've shared and it's been a pleasant surprise to come across this message thread and read the discussions.
At this point there's nothing more to add to this family tree that's verifiable. I have a ton of Olliffe bits a pieces that are most likely related and I can only hope more information comes to light in the coming years. The Brinny parish record would be most helpful I believe, if it contains what is listed in it's description, but those records are in Ireland and I am in Canada. It would be necessary to visit the RCB Library in Dublin to view these records:
https://www.churchofireland.org/cmsfiles/pdf/AboutUs/library/registers/ParishRegisters/ABC/BrinnyParishRegisterList.pdf