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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: nenepops on Saturday 23 November 24 08:47 GMT (UK)
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I have Elizabeth Johnstone in my tree b1888 Hawick. Her mother was Elizabeth Johnstone b1869.
She is on the census 1891 Hawick as a boarder but after that cannot find her?
Could anyone help on her whereabouts please?
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Have you checked SP for a marriage for Elizabeth senior? Elizabeth jnr may be under her mothers married name
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Elizabeth Johnstone is under her mother’s maiden name. Her mother married after Elizabeth was born 1890 to Martin Jardine.
But I’ll look now.
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Rather strange that the 1901 for Martin Jardine has a 1yr old Elizabeth. Also shows Elizabeth Jardine was b England 1862 but 1881 & 1891 shows England 1869
1891 also has a 5mth old Joseph Jardine who is with Martin & Elizabeth in 1901
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There is an 1891 death in Hawick for an Elizabeth Jardine mmn Johnston
Although they married 1890 - Elizabeth is under Johnstone in 1891 as she is with her parents
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There is an 1891 death in Hawick for an Elizabeth Jardine mmn Johnston
Oh really….🤔
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No other Elizabeth Jardine matching her age in 1891 - death age was 4yrs
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If it is the right death - it would account for their first daughter born after they married being called Elizabeth. They had 3 sons prior to her birth
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So the Elizabeth that died would’ve been Elizabeth Johnstone then?
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Did you check SP or the 1891 census for the other birth? That Elizabeth mmn Bogle died 1888
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So the Elizabeth that died would’ve been Elizabeth Johnstone then?
The death certificate will tell you.
But it does look probable.
Elizabeth J was aged 3 in the 1891 census. This means that (assuming that her age is accurate) she had not yet had her 4th birthday by the date of the 1891 census, which was on 5 April 1891. Therefore she was born between 6 April 1887 and 5 April 1888. Not necessarily in 1888.
(The original census never gives a year of birth. Assuming accuracy, it tells you the age of the person on their last birthday before the day of the census; and subtracting the age in a census from the year of the census gives a wrong year 3 times out of 4.)
There is a birth in Hawick in 1887 of an Elizabeth Johnstone, mother's maiden name not included in the index. That omission is often an indicator of an illegitimate birth. You need to get a copy of that certificate and see what it tells you.
Also a copy of the death certificate of Elizabeth Jardine mmn Johnstone in 1891 to see what that tells you.
Elizabeth Jardine mmn Bogle is a red herring. She was most likely one of 7 children of John Johnstone and Mary Bogle, married in Wilton in 1886.
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This is all so confusing🫣
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Elizabeth Johnstone is under her mother’s maiden name. Her mother married after Elizabeth was born 1890 to Martin Jardine.
Rather strange that the 1901 for Martin Jardine has a 1yr old Elizabeth. Also shows Elizabeth Jardine was b England 1862 but 1881 & 1891 shows England 1869
1891 also has a 5mth old Joseph Jardine who is with Martin & Elizabeth in 1901
For info.
1891 census
Town Hawick
County Roxburghshire
Address South Trinity Street
David Johnstone 58 Head
Elizabeth Johnstone 61 Wife
Elizabeth Johnstone 22 Daur
Elizabeth Johnstone 3 Boarder
Joseph Jardine 5 Ms Boarder
1901 census
Town Langholm
County Dumfriesshire
Address 4 & 6 Rosevale St
Martin Jardine 31 Head
Elizth Jardine 39 Wife
Joseph Jardine 10 Son
David Jardine 8 Son
James Jardine 3 Son
Elizth Jardine 1 Daughter
Staplegordon Cemetery
Martin Jardine age 33 Burial 30 Aug 1902
James Jardine age 17 Burial 11 May 1915
Elizabeth Jardine age 68 burial 23 Jan 1937 widow of Martin Jardine
Joseph Jardine age 28, footman Burial 18 Aug 1919
son Martin McRae Jardine age 2 1/2 years burial 27 Aug 1919
Cemetery Section: Centre Interment Number 157
England & Scotland, Select Cemetery Registers, 1800-2024 - not seeing an 1891 burial for
Elizabeth Jardin at Staplegordon Cemetery :(
Mother Elizabeth Jardine next of kin on her son David’s Army pension record year 1914
address 22 Beaconsfield Terrace Harwick
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All you have to do is download that 1891 death cert to remove your confusion. By 1891 Elizabeth was married so it would not be unusual for Elizabeth jnr death to be registered as Jardine
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There is an 1891 death in Hawick for an Elizabeth Jardine mmn Johnston
Although they married 1890 - Elizabeth is under Johnstone in 1891 as she is with her parents
No other Elizabeth Jardine matching her age in 1891 - death age was 4yrs
I had some credits to use up on SP
Elizabeth JOHNSTON (single) Illegitimate
1891 November Twelfth, age 3 3/4 years
Mother Elizabeth JARDINE M.S, JOHNSTONE
Present at death grandfather David JOHNSON
Registered 1891 November 13th at Harwick
Cause of death membranous - croup for 7 days
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There is an 1891 death in Hawick for an Elizabeth Jardine mmn Johnston
Although they married 1890 - Elizabeth is under Johnstone in 1891 as she is with her parents
No other Elizabeth Jardine matching her age in 1891 - death age was 4yrs
I had some credits to use up on SP
Elizabeth JOHNSTON (single) Illegitimate
1891 November Twelfth, age 3 3/4 years
Mother Elizabeth JARDINE M.S, JOHNSTONE
Present at death grandfather David JOHNSON
Registered 1891 November 13th at Harwick
Cause of death membranous - croup for 7 days
Thank you so so much. This kinda explains it.👍🏻
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Elizabeth Johnstone is under her mother’s maiden name. Her mother married after Elizabeth was born 1890 to Martin Jardine.
Rather strange that the 1901 for Martin Jardine has a 1yr old Elizabeth. Also shows Elizabeth Jardine was b England 1862 but 1881 & 1891 shows England 1869
1891 also has a 5mth old Joseph Jardine who is with Martin & Elizabeth in 1901
For info.
1891 census
Town Hawick
County Roxburghshire
Address South Trinity Street
David Johnstone 58 Head
Elizabeth Johnstone 61 Wife
Elizabeth Johnstone 22 Daur
Elizabeth Johnstone 3 Boarder
Joseph Jardine 5 Ms Boarder
1901 census
Town Langholm
County Dumfriesshire
Address 4 & 6 Rosevale St
Martin Jardine 31 Head
Elizth Jardine 39 Wife
Joseph Jardine 10 Son
David Jardine 8 Son
James Jardine 3 Son
Elizth Jardine 1 Daughter
Staplegordon Cemetery
Martin Jardine age 33 Burial 30 Aug 1902
James Jardine age 17 Burial 11 May 1915
Elizabeth Jardine age 68 burial 23 Jan 1937 widow of Martin Jardine
Joseph Jardine age 28, footman Burial 18 Aug 1919
son Martin McRae Jardine age 2 1/2 years burial 27 Aug 1919
Cemetery Section: Centre Interment Number 157
England & Scotland, Select Cemetery Registers, 1800-2024 - not seeing an 1891 burial for
Elizabeth Jardin at Staplegordon Cemetery :(
Mother Elizabeth Jardine next of kin on her son David’s Army pension record year 1914
address 22 Beaconsfield Terrace Harwick
Thank you
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Couldn't make out the first address -
edit to add it's the time not an address ::)
8h 30m ? ?
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1891 census
Town Hawick
County Roxburghshire
Address South Trinity Street
David Johnstone 58 Head
Elizabeth Johnstone 61 Wife
Elizabeth Johnstone 22 Daur
Elizabeth Johnstone 3 Boarder
Joseph Jardine 5 Ms Boarder
And the child Elizabeth died at 18 Trinity Street just a few months later.
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1891 census
Town Hawick
County Roxburghshire
Address South Trinity Street
David Johnstone 58 Head
Elizabeth Johnstone 61 Wife
Elizabeth Johnstone 22 Daur
Elizabeth Johnstone 3 Boarder
Joseph Jardine 5 Ms Boarder
And the child Elizabeth died at 18 Trinity Street just a few months later.
I had no need of my remaining credits on SP so thought I’d check for you to see what was on the 1887 birth entry mentioned
Elizabeth JOHNSTON (Illegitimate)
1887 December 11th
18 Trinity Street Harwick
Mother Elizabeth JOHNSTON occ. Need. Pin machine winder
Informant grandfather David JOHNSTON ( present)
Registered 1887 December 26th at Harwick
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1891 census
Town Hawick
County Roxburghshire
Address South Trinity Street
David Johnstone 58 Head
Elizabeth Johnstone 61 Wife
Elizabeth Johnstone 22 Daur
Elizabeth Johnstone 3 Boarder
Joseph Jardine 5 Ms Boarder
And the child Elizabeth died at 18 Trinity Street just a few months later.
I had no need of my remaining credits on SP so thought I’d check for you to see what was on the 1887 birth entry mentioned
Elizabeth JOHNSTON (Illegitimate)
1887 December 11th
18 Trinity Street Harwick
Mother Elizabeth JOHNSTON occ. Need. Pin machine winder
Informant grandfather David JOHNSTON ( present)
Registered 1887 December 26th at Harwick
Wow how interesting.
Makes you want to keep researching doesn’t it.
Thank you so much ☺️
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I take it there are different ways of the spelling of Johnstone’s in those days?
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I take it there are different ways of the spelling of Johnstone’s in those days?
Yes. There are still lots of variants.
Even if the person themselves spelled it the same way every time, which isn't necessarily the case, other people who wrote things down might have other ideas.
For Johns(t)on(e) and variants search using wildcards: Joh*ns*n* should pick up all but the weirdest spelling variations.