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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Timbottawa on Wednesday 20 November 24 09:50 GMT (UK)

Title: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: Timbottawa on Wednesday 20 November 24 09:50 GMT (UK)
My grandfather was Harold Alfred Boyle (1881-1927).  He had 5 children, including my father.  All 5 children destroyed all photos of their father and refused to talk about him.  Whenever I asked my dad, he would say "you don't want to know about him, a terrible man".

Of course, he wasn't a "terrible man" to me, and I would love to find a photo of him.  I have been trying for years, thus far with no success.

He joined the armed forces twice - a brief 3-month stint in the Royal Navy in 1900, then he served in the Royal Field Artillery, 1915-1919.  But, as far as I can discover, neither the Navy in 1900, nor the Army in 1915 photographed recruits - or, if they did, those photos have been destroyed.

He also served time in prison in 1921.  Some 10 years ago I looked into police mug-shots or prisoner photos, but at the time I was told that, even if such photos existed, under the 100-yr-rule, access would be denied.  the 100-yr deadline has now passed, of course.

I've wondered about school photos (in Bradford in the 1890's), and I've contacted every single living relative of his sisters and brothers/sisters in law, with no luck.

Any suggestions or advice would be most welcome!
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: normamac on Wednesday 20 November 24 10:34 GMT (UK)
 
He is on a number of Private Trees on Ancestry.You could send a message and ask if they have a photo of him.

Norma.
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: Timbottawa on Wednesday 20 November 24 10:38 GMT (UK)
Thanks Norma ... I have tried that, without success.  There's even one tree with a (private) photo of "Harold Boyle and Edith Butler marriage" - I sent a message many, many years ago, never got an answer.  I suspect it's actually an image of their marriage certificate.
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: Jebber on Wednesday 20 November 24 10:50 GMT (UK)
There are a number of articles in various newspapers about his crime, unfortunately none of them contain a picture.
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: Timbottawa on Wednesday 20 November 24 10:51 GMT (UK)
Yes ... perhaps a decade too early for such photos (1921).  There are also reports of his bankruptcy in 1911, also no photos.
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Wednesday 20 November 24 13:52 GMT (UK)
If those who knew him destroyed all his photos and described him as a terrible man, I'd believe them.

There is a terrible man in my children's ancestry and they'll only learn the bare facts about him from me.
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: normamac on Thursday 21 November 24 02:55 GMT (UK)

He is on a number of Private Trees on Ancestry.You could send a message and ask if they have a photo of him.

Norma.
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: Wexflyer on Thursday 21 November 24 21:32 GMT (UK)
A case of damnatio memoriae
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: Timbottawa on Wednesday 17 December 25 12:56 GMT (UK)
Norma ... somehow I missed your post, from over a year ago.

Thanks for directing my attention to the photos on the private tree.  That is my tree.  The bearded gentleman is Harold Alfred's father, and the young couple are my mother and father.  I still lack a photo of Harold Alfred.

Tim
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: Josephine on Wednesday 17 December 25 15:42 GMT (UK)
If those who knew him destroyed all his photos and described him as a terrible man, I'd believe them.

There is a terrible man in my children's ancestry and they'll only learn the bare facts about him from me.

Same here. Some people are best forgotten.
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: cockney rebel on Wednesday 17 December 25 19:15 GMT (UK)


Same here. Some people are best forgotten.
[/quote]

Then please tell me how you can apply that to family history research?
User Timbottawa will continue to research as most of us would.
That's why they teach history in schools.

Rebel
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: Erato on Wednesday 17 December 25 20:11 GMT (UK)
Was he in any club, sports team, church group or the like? Sometimes you can find a newspaper group shot - not great, but better than nothing.  Also, try a Google book search.  He might have appeared in a magazine or some sort of specialty publication.
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: Timbottawa on Thursday 18 December 25 10:58 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the replies. 

Inspired by re-posting the challenge, I may have made a breakthrough yesterday evening!  I had three avenues of hope: school photos, armed forces photos (he enrolled twice), or police mug-shots.  And I stumbled across a reference to seemingly exactly what I need - a book of photographs of criminals arrested in Scarborough in the 1920's - he was arrested in Scarborough in 1924.  The book is in Ripon Museum, and has not been scanned, so I will have to take a trip up to Ripon after Christmas to have a look through it.  Although it's not clear whether the photos are of ALL criminals in Scarborough in the 1920's, I have high hopes for this one!!!
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: Josephine on Friday 26 December 25 21:05 GMT (UK)


Same here. Some people are best forgotten.

Then please tell me how you can apply that to family history research?
User Timbottawa will continue to research as most of us would.
That's why they teach history in schools.

Rebel
[/quote]

Did I tell him to stop?

I understand the desire to destroy all photos of someone. I personally think it will be good when there is no one left alive who remembers a certain person in my life. At that point, he will be nothing more than a collection of statistics.

This person is in online trees and I haven't asked anyone to remove his statistics. There's also no way on God's green earth that I would supply a photo of him to anyone for that purpose. If they find one on their own, okay, whatever.

You've obviously never had the misfortune of having such a destructive person cause damage to your life or the lives of people you love. Lucky you. But keep chiding people like me if it makes you feel good.
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Tuesday 30 December 25 09:40 GMT (UK)
Strange.  Maybe I am lucky in having no known nasties in my tree.  But I can't imagine feeling detestation for anyone enough to make me want to erase that person from history.  They existed, and perhaps present an example to others of how not to behave.  Exaggerated responses to historical events remind me of that ridiculous episode when the statue of Colston was tipped into Bristol harbour.  Didn't alter history, it just made a few nutty crusaders feel better for a while.
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Tuesday 30 December 25 23:04 GMT (UK)
Strange.  Maybe I am lucky in having no known nasties in my tree.  But I can't imagine feeling detestation for anyone enough to make me want to erase that person from history.  T
A lot depends on how far back in history they are, and whether one personally knows the victims or not.
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Tuesday 30 December 25 23:18 GMT (UK)
Strange.  Maybe I am lucky in having no known nasties in my tree.  But I can't imagine feeling detestation for anyone enough to make me want to erase that person from history.  T
A lot depends on how far back in history they are, and whether one personally knows the victims or not.

No doubt - but we are told this person died 98 years ago ?
Title: Re: Finding a photo of a "terrible man"
Post by: Erato on Tuesday 30 December 25 23:30 GMT (UK)
I do have a photo of my most terrible ancestor (at least he's the worst I know of).  He was one of my gg-grandfathers and I'm glad I have the photo.  He was a violent, drunken, mentally unbalanced wife beater and child abuser and possibly (probably) also a crook.  He made a substantial fortune and then squandered it on foolish mining investments, booze and various mistresses.  When he died, the remnants of the fortune were left to his "housekeeper" who was herself a scam artist.  His obituary in the local, small-town newspaper summed him up:

"Today old Mr. Cyrus Ware, a former resident of Hortonville, was buried; the remains were brought by rail from Illinois, and two carriages, besides the bearers and the hearse, were all the procession to follow the dead, one-time millionaire."

I daresay that news of his death was met with some satisfaction and even amusement in Hortonville.  At least I can say that his fortune did not pass down to later generations and I derived no benefit from it.