RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: jess5athome on Tuesday 19 November 24 22:01 GMT (UK)
-
Good evening, does anyone know how long it would normally take from an action in the trenches etc which would be recommended for an award to be published in the London Gazette?
I have a soldier by the name of William Rowlands 104928 R.F.A who was mentioned in the Gazette on the 13th of September 1918 ( page 10722 ) and awarded the Military Medal.
I am trying to find out the possible action he was involved in and the possible reason for the award, although I know that citations were very few and far between for enlisted men.
Many thanks, and as always my very best regards
Frank.
-
I think this quote from the Long, Long Trail website is probably the closest you will get to an answer to your question
Throughout the war the listing in the London Gazette was around three months after the act of bravery had been carried out. This good rule of thumb however breaks down during the great Allied offensive of the summer and autumn of 1918, with many MMs for this period not being listed until well into 1919
You should probably read the whole article to get the full picture. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/research-award-military-medal-mm/
As you say, the actual citation will be hard to find. My suggestion would be to try to locate the war diary entries for the likely incident for which the MM was awarded. Although the soldier may not be named in the diary you may be able to pin down a date or series of dates on which the incident probably occurred.
That said, some acts of bravery were not immediately acknowledged at the time and only came out later. And without wishing to be too cynical some MMs were recommended by commanding officers who wanted to raise morale and the chain of command was happy support them because they did have that effect and didn't cost anything to award. So it could be that the act which lead to the award might be seen as a soldier doing his duty, albeit in the face of the enemy, which on another day or in another place, might not have resulted In a recommendation. The act of bravery necessary for an award was never actually defined in detail, so it left much to the discretion of the soldier's Commanding Officer.
-
My suggestion would be to try to locate the war diary entries for the likely incident for which the MM was awarded. Although the soldier may not be named in the diary you may be able to pin down a date or series of dates on which the incident probably occurred.
I have no idea if this will help narrow down which diary/other to look for, but his records include a letter from him, as he hadn't yet received his MM, and he stated that his unit was D Batt, 162 Brigade, 33 Division, RFA.
-
Good morning, just popping back in before I go out this morning.
Andy J2022, thank you for the reply, information and the Lonoglongtrail link, I will give it a read later today :)
bbart, many, many thanks for your input, I have yet to find his records but will continue to look for them, fascinating to learn of the letter you mention, it may well hold a clue :)
My thanks and best wishes to you both.
Frank.
-
I have yet to find his records but will continue to look for them, fascinating to learn of the letter you mention, it may well hold a clue :)
I should have worded that better.... the "records" I referred to is more like a collection of medal cards, and correspondence back and forth regarding his medals. There is no attestation form, pay sheets, or when/where he was during service, along with a few blank pages stamped "Duplicate", but were never filled out. Oddly enough, there was also one page listing soldiers in various hospitals, but his name does not even appear on that. ??? A bit of a jumbled file...
-
I have yet to find his records but will continue to look for them, fascinating to learn of the letter you mention, it may well hold a clue :)
I should have worded that better.... the "records" I referred to is more like a collection of medal cards, and correspondence back and forth regarding his medals. There is no attestation form, pay sheets, or when/where he was during service, along with a few blank pages stamped "Duplicate", but were never filled out. Oddly enough, there was also one page listing soldiers in various hospitals, but his name does not even appear on that. ??? A bit of a jumbled file...
Ah, I see, not to worry, I did a search on Ancestry for his records but no luck I'm afraid, do you happen to have a link to the correspondence etc?
Many thanks again for your kind reply.
Frank.
-
Hi Frank,
The records I found are on FindmyPast, and there is good news and bad news!
The good news is that I had not scrolled far enough through all the pages; his attestation papers etc are there!
The bad news is that there is no explanation for the MM for unless I missed something.
Edited to add clip (which I have photo edited as it was very faint). I am wondering if the 5th of September was the date of the event that he earned it for?
-
I think 5th September is the date of the Gazette edition, although the actual supplement in which the award was 'gazetted' was 13 September 1918. I haven't confirmed this by looking it up.
-
Thanks, Andy. I was hoping it might have narrowed it down. The search goes on!
-
Good evening bbart and Andy J2022, thank you so much for your continued input, I have found his service record on Ancestry this evening after a dig around.
bbart, I have found the piece mentioned by yourself regarding the 5th of September and admit my heart skipped a little but as Andy J2022 said, I too think it was the date of the edition of the Gazette, it looks to read "To London Gazette" after the 5th of September, although it is in short hand type of writing.
I will try a search of the London Gazette to clarify, as a side note, he was actually awarded his MM by the Officer Commanding Mersey Defences, Liverpool in a private setting on the 10th of March 1920 at 15-30 hrs.
Best regards always.
Frank.
-
Good afternoon, just to update the thread, the actual publication date of the edition of the Gazette in which the notice appeared was the 10th of September 1918.
So 3 different dates to ponder over :-\
Frank :)
-
Good evening, just another update to the thread, I have searched through the Battalion War Diary from January 1918 until October 1918 and can find no mention of my man, alas it looks as if it was not entered into the diary.
Many thanks to you all for your input, and as always my very best regards.
A very merry Christmas to you all.
Frank :)
-
Wait!!
It could have been late April, known as Second Battle of Mount [sic] Kemmel. (I think it should be MONT Kemmel?)
His medal card shows the 162nd, and there is this (which would need confirmation), but the writer states well into the article that "In recognition of this performance every driver of both teams was awarded the Military Medal. "
https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/story/103762
And Merry Christmas to you as well! :)
-
Hi bbart, Wow!! thank you so much for that, it's certainly a possibility, I will go back to the War Diary and search through it around that date.
Again, thank you so much.
Frank :)