RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Penmaiden on Monday 18 November 24 14:09 GMT (UK)
-
My great grandmother Dorothy Ethel Yardley was born 6th December 1917 to Charlotte Eliza Osborne at 19 Miall Rd, Sydenham.
Charlotte was married to Sidney Charles Leonard Osborne, but she appears to have got pregnant with someone else while he was away with the army.
Dorothy was originally registered as Osborne but then was raised by her grandparents and went by Yardley (her mother's maiden name) until her marriage.
Through DNA comparison I believe that Dorothy's father was most likely one of three brothers: George Thomas Payne (2 Mar 1885), Alfred Samuel Payne (30 Jul 1887) or Arthur Payne (24 Jan 1890). George was married 1918, Alfred in 1920 and Arthur 1912. Arthur worked at the same gas works as some of Charlotte's family members as of at least 1921. They lived in Croydon.
I was hoping to find WW1 service records for them to pinpoint exactly where they were in 1917 but I haven't been able to find one for any of them. Does that mean they just don't exist?
-
Arthur Payne had a son with his wife in April 1916. His occupation was at a gas works. His wife registered the birth.
-
I suggest Arthur would likely be exempt from service if employed at a gas works. What were the occupations of the other brothers?
-
I suggest Arthur would likely be exempt from service if employed at a gas works. What were the occupations of the other brothers?
George was a bricklayer and Alfred was a plasterers labourer. On his marriage in 1920 Alfred was also a private in the 12th Royal Fusiliers.
I also wondered if Arthur was exempt. He worked in the gas works as a "Fireman". Arthur had four sons born 3 July 1914, 14 April 1916, 23 Aug 1918 and 2 Aug 1920.
-
Over 60% of WW1 service records were burnt during the WW2 blitz
-
Even when Service records exist they don't tend to that helpful in tracking individual movements at all. if you know their Battalion you have an idea where they might have been. medal cards are helpful as they often give a date of entry into theatre and the cap badge which helps.
Local newspapers form the time often reported soldiers on leave, joining up, coming home. I found several entries for my GGrandfather coming back to wales in the war.
-
Over 60% of WW1 service records were burnt during the WW2 blitz
Are you sure it was the 12th? Post WW1 only the Regular battalions of the 1st to 4th remained. The RF did not have RA battalions in peacetime but even if they had if he was TA in 1920 then he would have had a civilian job. The 12th ceased to exist during WW1 and was not around in 1920.
This is from the Long Long Trail WW1 website.
12th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Hounslow in September 1914 as part of K3 and came under command of 73rd Brigade, 24th Division.
Moved to Shoreham-by-Sea and later to Pirbright Camp in Surrey.
Sailed from Folkestone for Boulogne in France 1 September 1915.
17 October 1915 : transferred to 17th Brigade in same Division.
13 February 1918 : disbanded in France, with personnel dispersed to 1st, 10th and 11th Battalions.
-
Over 60% of WW1 service records were burnt during the WW2 blitz
Are you sure it was the 12th? Post WW1 only the Regular battalions of the 1st to 4th remained. If he was TA in 1920 then he would have had a civilian job. The 12 ceased to exist during WW1 and was not around in 1920.
This is from the Long Long Trail WW1 website.
12th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Hounslow in September 1914 as part of K3 and came under command of 73rd Brigade, 24th Division.
Moved to Shoreham-by-Sea and later to Pirbright Camp in Surrey.
Sailed from Folkestone for Boulogne in France 1 September 1915.
17 October 1915 : transferred to 17th Brigade in same Division.
13 February 1918 : disbanded in France, with personnel dispersed to 1st, 10th and 11th Battalions.
Looking at it closer it could say 11th
-
The 11th were war raised battalion and were disbanded in 1919.
11th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Hounslow on 6 September 1914 as part of K2 and came under command of 54th Brigade, 18th (Eastern) Division.
Landed at Boulogne in July 1915.
-
The 11th were war raised battalion and were disbanded in 1919.
11th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Hounslow on 6 September 1914 as part of K2 and came under command of 54th Brigade, 18th (Eastern) Division.
Landed at Boulogne in July 1915.
I can't figure out what else it might say. Unless it says he is "late" of the 12th regiment?
-
That's most likely but even then that's 3 years after it's disbandment so it would be more likely to be late of the 11th..
-
George was married 1918, Alfred in 1920 and Arthur 1912. Arthur worked at the same gas works as some of Charlotte's family members as of at least 1921. They lived in Croydon.
The eldest brother George got married Oct/Nov/Dec 1918 which seems to coincide with the end of the war.
-
My dad Arthur was born at 19 Mail road, his surname is spelt Osborn with no e on the end, his father was Sydney Charles Leonard Osborn His mother Charlotte Yardley
-
My dad Arthur was born at 19 Mail road, his surname is spelt Osborn with no e on the end, his father was Sydney Charles Leonard Osborn His mother Charlotte Yardley
Yes that is the same family. My great grandmother would have been your dad's half sister. She was also born and raised at 19 Miall Road by her grandparents.
-
My great grandmother Dorothy Ethel Yardley was born 6th December 1917 to Charlotte Eliza Osborne at 19 Miall Rd, Sydenham.
Charlotte was married to Sidney Charles Leonard Osborne, but she appears to have got pregnant with someone else while he was away with the army.
Dorothy was originally registered as Osborne but then was raised by her grandparents and went by Yardley (her mother's maiden name) until her marriage.
Through DNA comparison I believe that Dorothy's father was most likely one of three brothers: George Thomas Payne (2 Mar 1885), Alfred Samuel Payne (30 Jul 1887) or Arthur Payne (24 Jan 1890). George was married 1918, Alfred in 1920 and Arthur 1912. Arthur worked at the same gas works as some of Charlotte's family members as of at least 1921. They lived in Croydon.
I was hoping to find WW1 service records for them to pinpoint exactly where they were in 1917 but I haven't been able to find one for any of them. Does that mean they just don't exist?
So my Dad had a half sister who was Yardley because of my nan Charlotte's maiden name, my dad was called Arthur maybe after your great grandmothers dad.
-
So my Dad had a half sister who was Yardley because of my nan Charlotte's maiden name, my dad was called Arthur maybe after your great grandmothers dad.
Arthur was also the name of your Dad's grandfather Arthur Yardley, so I think it probably came from him.
-
Thank you.