RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: DianaCanada on Saturday 16 November 24 20:21 GMT (UK)
-
Hoping to find Annie Maria Relf, who was born in Burwash, Sussex on 27 May 1885 (birthdate from baptismal record), the daughter of William James Relf and Hannah Potten. The Relfs had a large family and moved around a bit, by 1911 William was in Eltham, London and Hannah declares she has 12 children, 12 living. In 1921 she is in an institution in Brentwood, Essex.
I have had trouble tracking Annie but think she might be the Annie M. Relf who married Albert Wicks in Reading district in Jun 1914. They are likely the couple who arrived at Philadelphia, USA, 23 Apr 1914.
The age is a good match for Annie. They were heading for Winnipeg, Manitoba and appear there on the 1916 Manitoba census and the 1921 Canadian census. In 1916 Annie is listed as Annie Maria. Albert is a carpenter, as he was on the passenger list in 1914. They were going to an uncle, J. Richards, Winnipeg, on the passenger list. I do not know who he is.
Annie gives her birthplace as Sevenoaks, Kent on the passenger list (Albert's is Reading). This is the only blaring discrepancy that I can find but there is no Annie M. Relf on FreeBMD for that time period born in Sevenoaks.
Find My Grave has Albert's death as 8 Dec 1947, and his is buried in Winnipeg. A very good candidate for Annie arrives in England (Liverpool) in 1948, going to 33 Kennett St., Reading. Her age matches.
I believe it is possible Albert arrived in Canada well before Annie did, and that he returned to England at some point, perhaps meeting her there, and decided then to return to Canada.
If anyone has any connection to these folks or can identify Annie more precisely, I would be very grateful.
-
Berkshire marriage index has the following:
Albert WICKS and Annie Marie RELF
married 11 Apr 1914 at St Peter, Caversham Berkshire
Groom: Age 30, bachelor, carpenter, living at 38 Cromwell Road, Caversham
Bride: Age 28, spinster, living at "Breceeles", Southcote Road, Reading. Daughter of William James Relf
Witnesses: William James Relf, Florence Annie Hazell
EDIT: Bride's age corrected
-
Thank you! This certainly looks like her, but her age is off by 10 years. Wonder if this has been transcribed incorrectly. All the other sources have her age matching Annie Maria, daughter of William James Relf, born in 1885.
Her father died in 1933, so certainly could have witnessed the marriage.
-
Oops - sorry. She was indeed 28. Have corrected.
-
Do you have her in 1911? She has been mistranscribed as Annie Marie Rey.
She was 24 years old at the time, and working as a parlour maid in the household of a brewer called Frederick Simonds. Same address as given on the marriage record above.
-
My iPad won’t stay on. Can’t double check the 1914 passenger list - J Richards may be for the passenger name under Wicks. Before iPad died I think I saw (returning) “Home” for the Wicks.
Sending this before iPad dies again. Apologies if I am incorrect about the above.
-
I’m still here. :o (Having major problems with iPad.)
Can now view the passenger image:
Home(?)
528 Maryland
Winnipeg
Albert had been in the U.S. before although it has “In transit” so perhaps just on his way to Canada? Annie hadn’t.
-
Departure on 15 Apr 1914
from Southampton to New York
on board the Phildelphia (American Steamship Line)
Albert Wicks (farmer age 30) and Annie Wicks (wife)
ticket number 293475
Arrived 23 Apr 1914
Albert now described as a carpenter
Home address given as 38 Cromwell Road Caversham, Reading, Berks England
so definitely the same couple who had only recently married
-
I’m still here. :o (Having major problems with iPad.)
Can now view the passenger image:
Home(?)
528 Maryland
Winnipeg
Albert had been in the U.S. before although it has “In transit” so perhaps just on his way to Canada? Annie hadn’t.
Can't see the record you are referring to
-
I’m still here. :o (Having major problems with iPad.)
Can now view the passenger image:
Home(?)
528 Maryland
Winnipeg
Albert had been in the U.S. before although it has “In transit” so perhaps just on his way to Canada? Annie hadn’t.
Can't see the record you are referring to
The Winnipeg address was documented on the page after Wicks’ name and home address. :). I believe it was the 23 Apr 1914 passenger list. I can look again if I’m incorrect about the date.
-
Can see what you mean now.
"Final destination" was given as Winnipeg - specific address, 528 Maryland. Albert recorded as having been to the UC before but only "in transit" presumably meaning en route to Canada.
However the reference to Uncle J Richards attaches to the next pair of passengers, not Albert and wife.
-
Winnipeg 1915 City Directory
Wicks Alfd asst Chemist C P R shops h 25, 425 Burrows
“ Arthur carp Rendall and Whyard
“ Joseph electn h 404 Hampton (St J)
Chemist for CPR? Could Arthur be a brother? Strange.
Added: the above men were not in the 1914, 1913 or 1912 Winnipeg directories.
-
Agree.
I didn’t realize there were two pages when I first had access to passenger lists. Don’t want to admit how long it took me to find out. ;D
-
Your Albert shows up in the 1916 Winnipeg directory.
Wicks Albt carp h 530 Sherbrooke
https://archive.org/details/P000921-3-17/P000921-3-17/page/1512/mode/1up
1914 Winnipeg City Directory (published in 1914)
The only individual shown with the address 528 Maryland was a Harry Hooper.
-
Thanks all of you for your help. This has really helped me clarify that this was "my" Annie Maria and her husband Albert. Have not found any evidence they had any children. I did find a FindaGrave for Annie, too, she is buried with Albert, and died 3 Dec 1970.
The only issue is her birthplace of Sevenoaks, when she was actually born in Burwash, but only half an hour away. The Relfs might have lived there at some point.
Now I need to find her missing sister Ellen!
-
When was Ellen’s last sighting? I’m guessing you’ve considered the possibility of Nellie Relf, living with her aunt and uncle in West Derby in 1901.
-
When was Ellen’s last sighting? I’m guessing you’ve considered the possibility of Nellie Relf, living with her aunt and uncle in West Derby in 1901.
Lisa, you’re a genius! I had not found that.
When looking for her parents’ marriage I had a heck of a time, until I somehow found them married under their birth names (both were born before their parents married). So the Ellis Ellen/Nellie is with in 1901 is using his mother’s surname.
Ellen was actually registered as Ellen Relf Ellis, but baptized as Ellen Relf.
-
Have you now found Annie's birth registration? If not it is registered September qtr 1885 as Annie Maria, Ticehurst RD (correct for Burwash) ref 2b 105, mms Potten.
Nell
Added: the family are in Burwash in both 1891 and 1901, with no sign that any of the children were born anywhere else.
-
Have you now found Annie's birth registration? If not it is registered September qtr 1885 as Annie Maria, Ticehurst RD (correct for Burwash) ref 2b 105, mms Potten.
Nell
Added: the family are in Burwash in both 1891 and 1901, with no sign that any of the children were born anywhere else.
Thank you, yes, I had that birth registration, as well as her baptismal record (she was 3 by that point).
The three youngest children: were two daughters born in Bexhill, Sussex (Daisy and Rose) as well as a son Bertie in Seal, Kent (he later goes by Albert, so gave me a bit of a challenge), he was the youngest.
On the 1911 Hannah states she had 12 children, all living. They are in Eltham, London by that point. (They lost two sons that I have accounted for in WWI, and at least 3 served).
The family had a habit of changing names, i.e. Bertie's death registered as Albert Thomas and Rose (registered as Rose Mary May) death is Rosemary. At birth Rose's mother on Gov.uk is Potter rather than Potten.
I have edited my first post - Hannah was with her husband in Eltham in 1911, not in an institution in Brentwood, Essex, as I stated. She was in Brentwood in 1921.
-
I know you have 2 of the censuses, DC, but sharing if anyone else looking in.
Moving a family to look into for Albert..."on speculation only" to bottom of post
1906- Albert on the Tunisian - Carpenter - arrived Quebec, heading for Winnipeg
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2Q38-XVM?lang=en
1915 is signed up with Britain Trade Union Registers in Reading, Berks
(Info FindMyPast) perhaps why he returned in 1914?
Should be correct person, as he's signed up with them twice later 1919 &1921 Winnipeg,
1916 Wpg. 530 Sherbrooke He says b. 1883 imm. 1904 Annie b. 1885 imm. 1914
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Home/Record?app=census&IdNumber=43135699&ecopy=31228_4363961-00659
Albert WICKS - 1920 directory lives at 530 Sherbrook at Radisson
Carpenter for Sutherland Construction
1921 says b. 1883 carpenter odd jobs & that both immigrated 1912
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Home/Record?app=census&IdNumber=67398982&ecopy=e002889789
1926 census ALBERT c. 1888 Eng. says imm. 1910 - Annie inm 1915 215 CAMPBELL ST.
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Home/Record?app=census&IdNumber=71518878&ecopy=e011231367
1931 - as "Nicks" Albert b. 1883 Annie Marie b. 1887
215 CAMPBELL ST -says immigration 1896 for both!
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Home/Record?app=census&IdNumber=83530728&ecopy=e011719175
1935 - 419 Kingsway but elsewhere says home is at 419 Borebank
1945 - 419 Haskins & Kingsway
______________
Moved & added to: There's this Albert - on speculation only
age & location fits but found no proof of actual tie-in
1891 census - born Reading, with siblings Minnie & Louisa
single mother Mary A Wicks b. 1860 Berkshire Harry Pocock head
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:71K9-53Z
which at first made me think homechild, as there are Wicks...but then found his arrival.
Burial - Perhaps Louisa (if related, also listed: cricketer Ernest Herbert Relf d. 1918 -ww1)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:C69R-XHN2?lang=en
Marriage Sept Quarter 1903 Albert Lane /Minnie Wicks Reading
1911 Has Minnie with husband & children / Mother has married Harry Pocock
1891 and she now calls herself Sarah Anne.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7LX-7QD
Note father is in the building trade & sister's husband Albert Lane, the furniture business
Albert called himself a cabinetmaker on at least one early directory year 1919
!!!Just found on 1901 Albert & siblings now have last name "Pocock"
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS35-63N?id=9K2F-QRV
above & between lines is on spec only
_________
There were actually several Wicks in Manitoba & Winnipeg...so there may have been misspells, as few were included in the directories. https://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/people/wicks_fw.shtml
an Alfred 1931 with a child/ out of work / perhaps the one found earlier
May have been the fireman with the railroad & perhaps worked with chemicals that extinguish fires?
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Home/Record?app=census&IdNumber=83562477&ecopy=e011719841
-
J.J., thanks for all this. Will look it over and add to my file in this branch.