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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Arranroots on Tuesday 13 September 05 17:44 BST (UK)
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A new name in my tree!
I would appreciate 1841 census details for Nathaniel SERGEANT (or variant spelling) born about 1832 in Kingswood, near Wotton under Edge.
His mother might be Elizabeth, found as a widow in 1851 and born Sherston.
Thank you.
Arranroots ;)
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Hi Arranroots,
Closest I could find...
Golden Lane, Kingswood
John SARGENT 30 Ag Lab Yes born in county
Mary " 30 Yes
Nathaniel " 8 Yes
David WATTS 8 No
Job " 8 No
John SARGENT 11mths No
HO107/1172 Folio 30 Page 23
Debbie ;)
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PS Just noticed that in the index I have Nathaniel Sargent was living in Kingswood, Wiltshire and therefore born in Wiltshire :-\ ???
Debbie :-\
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Thanks very much indeed Debbie!
I have a problem with the location of the Moonraker border - it seems to move about a bit! I assume there is not a different Kingswood in Wiltshire? I know the Wotton one is pretty close to the border.
Well the age matches and I can always send for the marriage cert to confirm (when my lottery win comes up!).
Look at all those little boys - do you think he was having a sleep-over? ;D
Thanks again ~ Arranroots ;)
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Maybe Nathaniel WAS having a sleepover...
Down the road in Golden Lane (on page 24) there is the following family:
David SARGENT 60 Ag Lab
Betty " 50
Ann " 20 Clothworker
Mary " 15
And in 1851...
Kingswood, Gloucestershire (one nr Wotton)
SARGENT John 40 Pedler Kingswood
Mary 44 Shipping Sodbury
John 10 Scholar Kingswood
Elizabeth 9 Scholar Kingswood
Letitia 5 Scholar Kingswood
Jacob 4 Scholar Kingswood
WATTS James SinL 22 Ag Lab Chipping Sodbury
David SinL 18 Cloth Worker Chipping Sodbury
Job SinL 16 Ag Lab Chipping Sodbury
Debbie ;)
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thanks again Debbie
I had a look at the GB transcription and found a Nathaniel living with an Elizabeth (hence my inference that she could be his mother) in 1851. At this point I should tell you the reference - will get back to you ...
I don't suppose you have addresses in 1851?
Maybe I should post to see if anyone knows whether there is a Golden Lane in Kingswood Glos? What is your feeling about whether this is one and the same village?
A ;)
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The ref for 1851 is HO107/1958 section 2 schedule 51
Elizabeth and Nathaniel are living in the ELLERY household, but no relationship between him and her is stated. He is a clothworker.
In 1861 he is still a cloth worker and is married with family members I can recognise. his youngest daughter married my gt grandfather, but died in childbirth with their first baby. The baby was adopted by her uncle, but subsequently died of bronchitis at the age of 13 months. Neither was mentioned in the family and I knew nothing of them until beginning this research! How sad!
Thank you for helping to remember them.
Arranroots ;)
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Oh that is sad!
There is a Golden Lane, Kingswood GL12 on multimap.com.
I'm afraid I've only just realised that there are two Kingswoods now in Gloucestershire ooops! I used to live in Bristol and I've driven from Fishponds to Kingswood and I'm pretty sure I wasn't that close to Wiltshire...explains my earlier confusion anyway.
Unfortunately I've only got the transcript for 1851 Gloucestershire but the John & Mary Sargent entry was definitely in the Kingswood which must have been in Wiltshire at some point. I used the links from Genuki's Wiltshire section.
In 1841 Wiltshire there is only one Elizabeth (or variation) Sargeant of the right age to be yours in 1851 and she is the Betty living in Golden Lane, Kingswood.
There are a couple more in Gloucestershire aged between 45-60 in WINTERBOURNE and WAPLEY & CODRINGTON (both age 50).
I suppose Elizabeth could be Nathaniel's mother or grandmother but how to find out apart from getting a father's name from Nathaniel's marriage?
Debbie ;)
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Debbie you are very kind to look for them!
I used to live next door to the Kingswood in Bristol (Downend) and was very near there at the weekend! The one we need is nearly a suburb of Wotton, but it appears to meander over the border from time to time. Makes a pain of working out what they mean when they say born in county!!
I am dopey, cos I hadn't twigged that there was a Betty who might be Elizabeth! doh!
Will give this further thought...
A ;)
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Hi,
these may well be my SARGENTS, too!
I have a John SARGENT (wife Mary) both born Gloucestershire (abt 1811 and 1808 respectively) with children:
John (1840)
Elizabeth Ann (1842)
Letitia (1844)
Jacob (1846).
The interesting thing is - on looking at the 1841 Census from Wiltshire that DebbieDee posted, I note the two "WATTS" children. I have the mother of Nathaniel as, according to my records - Mary WATTS! So - there must be a connection somewhere - their aunt maybe - and it looks like they might be twins.
I also remember finding the Kingswood Gloucestershire and Wiltshire thing confusing, and learned that they were one and the same - the boundaries of the counties having changed back and forth several times over the years. This explains why I couldn't find the family pre 1861 - I wasn't looking for wilts at the time, only gloucestershire - so a big "thank you" to you, DebbieDee.
My connection to this family is (I believe) Nathaniels brother, John SARGENT b. 1840, he is very likely my gt, gt, grandfather. So, Arranroots - it would seem we're related, albeit distantly! :)
I was beginning to think I was the only one in the world tracing this line! I'm so happy to find someone else out there doing the same!
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Hi Jemhay - and welcome! :)
How exciting to find a link! Looks as though Nathaniel and the WATTS boys were step-brothers. (did I get that right, lol?)
As mentioned, we would be related by marriage, except that poor Mary-Ann died in childbirth and the wee one also died shortly after. I have both death certs - v sad!
As far as boundaries are concerned, this thread was started a while ago & I now own a beautiful map book which shows the arrangement of counties in the 19th century - and the pesky little pockets of Gloucestershire that were in Wiltshire and vice versa! kingswood was indeed one such place.
Did your SARGENT family stay in Gloucestershire or was he also tempted "down Wales"? I've forgotten whether Mary Ann went with her family, or whether Joseph went back to Kingswood to fetch her. The lack of an 1861 census for the area in Monmouthshire that they lived in doesn't help!
I'll look back at my records and see if I found anything that might help you but I'm not sure there will be anything - none the less, pleased to meet a new virtual cousin!
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Arranroots,
I`ve been poking around and came across this baptism, a possibility for your Nathaniel :-\
Nathaniel Sergeant - 8th September 1832 at Kingswood Congregational (near Wotton)
Date of Birth - 2nd August 1832
Son of John & Esther (nee Hathaway) of Kingswood, Wiltshire
Fathers`s Occupation - Labourer
Sue
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Oh thanks Sue!
This whole thing is taking life again!
I was at primary school with a girl called HATHAWAY - she was lovely!
Poor Esther must have died ... :'(
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My pleasure Arranroots ;D
Sue
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Hello again, and thanks for the warm welcome :)
I suppose the boys could be step brothers. They are all eight years old, though so they couldn't all be Mary's children. That would mean that John senior was either married before, or they were born out of wedlock. I'm not sure how likely this is tough, as they are both only 30 at the time and the boys being eight, wouldn't leave them a lot of time for multiple marriages - though it certainly wouldn't have been an impossibility. I'm thinking they likely belonged to other family - but you never know. They may have been orphaned and raised by Mary and John.
My SARGENTS left Gloucestershire and moved across to Berkshire/Hampshire around 1915.
Did your Nathanial marry a Matilda ORCHARD in 1851?
Did you ever confirm who Elizabeth/Betty was to Nathaniel? I'm thinking grandmother, as his mother appears to be Mary from the Census, but I need to confirm this. The same applies, of course, to my John (Nathan's brother) so I would like to find out anyway. I just checked a certificate which I believe to be my John's birth and it has his mother showing as "Mary formerly WATTS" and his Father is also a John. His occupation at that time was "Brushmaker" I have him as a "General Labourer" on Census - I don't know if this fits, or is the wrong certificate. ???
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This whole thing is taking life again!
I was at primary school with a girl called HATHAWAY - she was lovely!
Poor Esther must have died ... :'(
Hmmmm it sure is - the plot thickens it seems...
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These are the only two baptisms for siblings of Nathaniel that I can find:-
Rebecca Sergeant - 13th September 1835
Date of Birth - 20th May 1835
Esther Sergeant - No date
Date of Birth - 12th January 1839
Sue