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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: tejjy on Tuesday 12 November 24 09:37 GMT (UK)

Title: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: tejjy on Tuesday 12 November 24 09:37 GMT (UK)
i have a relative died in Melbourne 1886. No local family and a bad alcoholic, highly unlikely to have had any money or friends.

I've seen the inquest report, but how do I track down the burial? PROV no obvious clues
Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: CassT on Tuesday 12 November 24 10:04 GMT (UK)
Maybe the death certificate will show when and where buried
good luck
Cass
Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: tejjy on Tuesday 12 November 24 10:10 GMT (UK)
Sadly no - the death certificate pointed me to the inquest, but that's all
Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: cando on Tuesday 12 November 24 13:32 GMT (UK)
Are you referring to the death certificate or death registration on an index?  A death certificate in Victoria usually has the place of burial.

If you have the death certificate then what is entered in the column where buried, by whom and names of witnesses?

To help find a place of burial could you please post more details ie name and place of death. 

Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: tejjy on Tuesday 12 November 24 19:45 GMT (UK)
Thomas Robb, d. January 1886. Sanguineous apoplexy. Attached is the document I purchased for 22.50, which was advertised as a death certificate. I agree it looks more like a register.
Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: annmck on Tuesday 12 November 24 20:25 GMT (UK)
If you scroll across to the 2nd page of report, you’ll see it gives further details of his death-
date, place, time, reg. including burial at Melbourne Cemetery on 18th Jan 1886, undertaker T Perrant (sp?} witness names and the deceased’s place of origin and length of time in Australia.
Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: tejjy on Tuesday 12 November 24 20:42 GMT (UK)
Well that's a lesson 😀
Thank you very much.
Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: tejjy on Thursday 14 November 24 05:38 GMT (UK)
Maybe it's better to raise this question separately, but since it arises initial from this death certificate, I may as well start here.

How would it have been known that he had been in Victoria for three years? Would they really have bothered to go around to his last address and search for papers? The inquest report doesn't mention it. And what paper would have told them that anyway? Passport?

I can't find him on a PROV passenger list.
Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: Neale1961 on Thursday 14 November 24 06:06 GMT (UK)
It was probably information received by the informant of his death.
If the informant did not know him very well, it may not be entirely accurate.
Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 14 November 24 06:37 GMT (UK)
The informant on the record appears to be Constable HOEY. Present at the inquest.

If you go to Provic Inquests and search by the deceased's name, you can read the entire transcript of the inquest.


He was employed by a man named DUNBAS, who knew a good deal about him, including that he left a wife and family.

https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/inquests-and-other-coronial-records/inquests-deaths-deposition


This man DUNBAS was probably the source of the information about the deceased man.

Sue
Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: tejjy on Thursday 14 November 24 07:00 GMT (UK)
Yes, I have the inquest, thanks. PROV is amazing - so many of my ancestors died drunk and thanks to PROV I know the grim details more-or-less for all of them:-) This time I'm interested in the discrepancies; for example, Dundas says Robb is 65, not 61, and the duration of his stay isn't mentioned at the inquest.

I just wonder if there was a bureaucratic function for dealing with these kinds of burials in the 1880's (there is today) and if so, did it maintain records? Or might the church have stepped in to lend a hand (not likely, but perhaps) and if so, might there be records?

All very speculative, but you know, curiosity...
Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 14 November 24 07:18 GMT (UK)
My understanding is that in the absence of a relative who could pay for the burial a "pauper's burial" at the expense of the government, or a charitable institution would be carried out.
What do you know about his wife?

Sue
Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 14 November 24 08:00 GMT (UK)


Using britishnewspaperarchives.co.uk

  * Newtownards Chronicle and Co Down Observer  3 Apr 1886 p3
    Robb—January 19. at Melbourne, Austraia of apoplexy, Mr Thomas Robb, formerly of Lisburn.

  * Witness Belfast 2 Apr 1886 p1
    Robb—January 19, at Melbourne, Australia, of apoplexy, Mr Thomas Robb, formerly of Lisburn.


Three months after his death news is back in Ireland, and cause of death. Sounds like a letter sent back by....?
Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: tejjy on Thursday 14 November 24 08:08 GMT (UK)
What do you know about his wife?

Sue

The whole family returned to Dublin in 1873, and his wife died in Belfast in 1911. The inquest includes a deposition from his employer saying his wife and family was in Ireland.


Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: tejjy on Thursday 14 November 24 08:14 GMT (UK)


Using britishnewspaperarchives.co.uk

  * Newtownards Chronicle and Co Down Observer  3 Apr 1886 p3
    Robb—January 19. at Melbourne, Austraia of apoplexy, Mr Thomas Robb, formerly of Lisburn.

  * Witness Belfast 2 Apr 1886 p1
    Robb—January 19, at Melbourne, Australia, of apoplexy, Mr Thomas Robb, formerly of Lisburn.


Three months after his death news is back in Ireland, and cause of death. Sounds like a letter sent back by....?

That is exactly the quote that sent me looking for him in Melbourne. Prior to that I had assumed he was in Ireland with the rest of the family.

Whoever drafted the death notice knew more about him than the d/c informant, who wrote Belfast.

I would guess someone wrote to his wife - she would know his true origin. It's not what you'd call a warm notice, though, is it?

I have to say Thomas was not a good guy. If you extend your researches in the britishnewspaperarchive to 1861 you will find him (probably) stealing 100 pounds from his wife's brother 🥴
Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 14 November 24 08:34 GMT (UK)
This time I'm interested in the discrepancies; for example, Dundas says Robb is 65, not 61

For interest, a mention in the newspapers says he was 60
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/199450779
Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 14 November 24 08:42 GMT (UK)
Also for interest - at the inquest it mentions ROBB was employed by James DUNBAR. There is a mention of James DUNBAR of Westwood Place (same as Thomas ROBB) advertising for a lost dog:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/196954783 (1st column, near the bottom)
Title: Re: Indigent burial 1886
Post by: tejjy on Thursday 14 November 24 08:57 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the dog! I have a range of directory entries for Dunbar - he was at Westwood St for about 10 years, then he moved to Club Lane on the other side of Little Collins St.

But a dog is more humanising. He must have been a saint to employ Thomas.