RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: spurdog on Thursday 07 November 24 14:25 GMT (UK)

Title: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Thursday 07 November 24 14:25 GMT (UK)
Born Earlestown , Lancs 1849.

Second husband to my GGmother Lisette Heaney (Bn Rowley). Absalom appears to have criminal conviction(s). Trail goes cold 1915 for him.

Anyone able to have a peek for me. (Two eyes are better than one). No trace 1921 census, or 1939. Also noted staffordshire and birmingham
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: Pennines on Thursday 07 November 24 15:10 GMT (UK)
There is a death Q/E June 1915 in Dudley for an Absolom Harper, born c 1848. Have you ruled that one out?
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Thursday 07 November 24 15:23 GMT (UK)
Interesting, I've chased Harper, harter, hart...Absalom and Absalom and any other variants. fresh eyes were a great help, i have not come across this, many thanks!
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Thursday 07 November 24 15:33 GMT (UK)
Many moons ago i did find this, but the Corbett (Daughter mentioned), i believe is a different family
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 07 November 24 15:41 GMT (UK)
Charlotte Corbett nee HARPER is the wife of Frederick Corbett, they married in June qtr 1898

ADDED She is at the address stated in 1911
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 07 November 24 15:49 GMT (UK)
What was Absaloms occupation between prison visits  :)

Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: BumbleB on Thursday 07 November 24 15:52 GMT (UK)
Is this your man?

Absalom Harter and that he married Lisietta Harvey Heaney - 16 April 1906 at St John, Earlestown.

Absalom - 60, bachelor, Coal Miner.  Father - Isaac, Clogger
Lisietta - 45, WIDOW.  Father - Joseph Rawley (deceased), Publican

Witnesses:  Jervis Clough and May Heaney

Image available on Ancestry.
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: Pennines on Thursday 07 November 24 15:58 GMT (UK)
On 1851/1861 census records at least - he was born 'Horwich' and did have a father, Isaac.
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Thursday 07 November 24 16:40 GMT (UK)
bumbleb per your request, you are quite right, he is a clogger on his second marriage 1906. charlotte is harper, not harter...but there are two similar families.
Father Isaac, Mother Mary Green halgh (not proven)
censuses i have=1851, 1861, 1871, 1901, 1911
1896 prosecution, and 05/11/1896 liverpool daily post GBH
1912 at cherry streetNewton in makerfield
1915 85 leigh street newton in makerfield...and there endeth absaloms story
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: Pennines on Thursday 07 November 24 16:50 GMT (UK)
Has anyone found a death for Lisetta please?

Was she a prisoner in Staffordshire in 1901? If so - she and Absolom would have something in common from their backgrounds!!

 I can't find HER death though - as I was wondering if the location may assist with finding Absolom's death with more certainty.

(It would be boring if it went smoothly!)

Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: BumbleB on Thursday 07 November 24 16:59 GMT (UK)
Only a thought BUT - marriage in 1906 -

Absalom says that he is a BACHELOR!!!!
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Thursday 07 November 24 17:12 GMT (UK)
that is another investigation pending. there are a number of entries that are similar, the name being very rare (hence the confusion with Charlotte)- charlottes father was harper, a different family - proven.
I have six Absalom harpers married  between 1872 and 1903, one could be a mis-spell. I am suspecting bigamy.

Looking back at notes Greenhalgh is confirmed. (I am just having a tidy up).

Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 07 November 24 17:15 GMT (UK)
On 1851/1861 census records at least - he was born 'Horwich' and did have a father, Isaac.

also born Horwich in 1911 census
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 07 November 24 17:18 GMT (UK)
From LancashirerOPC
Baptism: 8 Apr 1849 Horwich Chapel, Horwich, Lancashire
Absolom Harter - Son of Isaac Harter & Mary
Abode: Horwich
Occupation: Finisher
 Source: LDS Film 2113122

His marriage to Lisette is also on there

ADDED He was fined 7s 6d for keeping a dog without a licence in 1911  :)
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Thursday 07 November 24 17:27 GMT (UK)
GBH, mentioned earlier!!! ::)
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Thursday 07 November 24 17:32 GMT (UK)
From LancashirerOPC
Baptism: 8 Apr 1849 Horwich Chapel, Horwich, Lancashire
Absolom Harter - Son of Isaac Harter & Mary
Abode: Horwich
Occupation: Finisher
 Source: LDS Film 2113122

His marriage to Lisette is also on there

Curious Lancashire OPC?

ADDED He was fined 7s 6d for keeping a dog without a licence in 1911  :)
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 07 November 24 17:36 GMT (UK)
GBH, mentioned earlier!!! ::)

In 1868 it looks as though he was summoned for trespassing in pursuit of game, he had a gun with him.

Sorry, that is not helping with finding him or Lisette after 1915
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Thursday 07 November 24 17:47 GMT (UK)
can you send this article, grist to the mill. hmmm. also 1864, poor law.

1896 was a fine of £14 5 shillings and sixpence, ouch, 5 complainants. a bit nasty this fella
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Thursday 07 November 24 17:52 GMT (UK)
yup, birth cert is horwich, Not scanned atm. earletown and horwich only 13 miles apart
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Thursday 07 November 24 17:55 GMT (UK)
Has anyone found a death for Lisetta please?

Was she a prisoner in Staffordshire in 1901? If so - she and Absolom would have something in common from their backgrounds!!

 I can't find HER death though - as I was wondering if the location may assist with finding Absolom's death with more certainty.

(It would be boring if it went smoothly!)
i think i have her death 1915 birmingham.
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: Pennines on Thursday 07 November 24 18:32 GMT (UK)
spurdog - I can't see that death in 1915 for Lisetta in Birmingham. Might you be thinking of the one found for an Absolom in Dudley in 1915?

If she DID die in Birmingham it would tie in with that death found for him in that location.
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Thursday 07 November 24 19:52 GMT (UK)
sadly a little while ago i had a computer crash, and lost a fair bit of info. i retained a hard copy of my request but not the cert itself. i'll have to sort out and recorder the cert.
You may be right he may have died same time/location.

i shall return tomorrow, in the mean time pennines etc thank you.
Irony she was the widow of a copper, and fell into bad ways maybe by his influence.
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Friday 08 November 24 11:51 GMT (UK)
absalom was not a blood relative, so i have only noted his name and a spelling error. It seems this morning i've opened a can of worms.
3-4 harter/harpers. stepfathers and fathers, two+ in dudley, gawd! eeeew!
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: Pennines on Friday 08 November 24 16:02 GMT (UK)
I am completely confused now, spurdog - so I am really sorry, but I don't think I can help. It's odd though, that Lisette just seems to disappear.
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: softly softly on Friday 08 November 24 16:24 GMT (UK)
Has anyone been able to find

HEANEY, LISSETTA       mmn ROWLEY 
GRO Reference: 1893  D Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT  Volume 06B  Page 224

in the 1901/11/21 census prior to her marriage in 1929 in Canada.

SS

added , have found her and 4 siblings in workhouse in 1901 in Stoke on Trent
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Friday 08 November 24 16:41 GMT (UK)
Has anyone been able to find

HEANEY, LISSETTA       mmn ROWLEY 
GRO Reference: 1893  D Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT  Volume 06B  Page 224

in the 1901/11/21 census prior to her marriage in 1929 in Canada.

SS

i have her in 1911 makerfield lancashire

added , have found her and 4 siblings in workhouse in 1901 in Stoke on Trent
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: softly softly on Friday 08 November 24 16:57 GMT (UK)
Give me a clue as to her name in 1911 please.

SS
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Friday 08 November 24 17:02 GMT (UK)
Give me a clue as to her name in 1911 please.

SS
Name   Lissetta Harry Harter
[Lissetta Harvey Harter]
Age in 1911   51
Estimated Birth Year   abt 1860
Relation to Head   Wife
Gender   Female
Birth Place   Tunstall, Lancashire, England
Civil parish   Newton in Makerfield
County/Island   Lancashire
Country   England
Street Address   4 Cherry Street Earlestown Newton Common Lancashire
Marital Status   Married
Registration District Number   459
Sub-registration district   Newton in Makerfield
ED, institution, or vessel   10
Piece   23111
Household Members (Name)   Age   Relationship
Absolem Harter
64
Head
Lissetta Harry Harter   51   Wife
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: softly softly on Friday 08 November 24 17:04 GMT (UK)
spurdog, I have found the mother, it's her daughter I'm looking for in 1911/21.

SS
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Friday 08 November 24 17:20 GMT (UK)
oh, sorry. that now makes sense.

as you show an interest in the daughter are you related?

i now have
absalom harper bn 1847 q4 dudley, marr 1872, died 21/04/1915 (daughter c corbett)

absalom harper bn 1859 q4 dudley, marr 1897, died 11/08/1945 (daughter E cook)

absalom harper bn 1852 q4 dudley, n/t marr cert yet, died 23/10/1902 (dreadful writing for informant/relative)

marriages required
1882 q1
1883 q4
1891 q1
1903 q3

i recall a post office article in lancashire for Lisette (on ancestry, i think), but cannot trace
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Friday 08 November 24 17:28 GMT (UK)
looks like lisetta, (daughter) in uk 1901, 1911
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: softly softly on Friday 08 November 24 17:44 GMT (UK)
spurdog, couple of things, I have no connection to family, just enjoy researching for others. With regard to your replies it really does help others to give reference numbers of census of people you find. Example your last reply do you have an address for lisetta in 1911.

With regard to Absolom, he was a military man from 31st May 1871- 2nd September 1887. His military on FindMyPast and free to access this weekend,

SS
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Friday 08 November 24 17:59 GMT (UK)
many thanks. in all my 20 years i have not been asked for that info, for that i am grateful of your guidance.

are you referring to the registration district etc onwards....on the censuses?

Lisette is in ancestry on my Family tree as an attachment.

i do not have full membership as uk and ireland suffices for me,
would you like any further info on lisette (daugher) aand the censuses?

this is my last message for me today, i've been working on harter/harper about 7 hours
Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: softly softly on Friday 08 November 24 18:37 GMT (UK)
Absalom in 1915 ?

SS



Title: Re: Harter, sometimes recorded as Harper, Absalom
Post by: spurdog on Saturday 09 November 24 12:01 GMT (UK)
yes, got that, cheers bud