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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Skaife on Wednesday 06 November 24 18:58 GMT (UK)
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Hello I hoping that somebody will be able to tell me if I have understood this record from the UK Register of Soldiers Effects correctly.
The widow Gertrude received £9 12 6 ( was this money owed to the soldier?)
and then in December 1919 she received a war gratuity of £15 10s.
Also the last column has the words recharge & child - what do they relate to? ( the soldier did have a child)
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Moderator comment: topics merged
Hopefully I have now attached the extract
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In blue is his personal money + pay owed.
In red is the gratuity paid to all NOK's based on £5 for the the first years service + 10s.
for every month thereafter.
From this you can work out when he joined.
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That is a great help - thank you both.
From that information - and if my sums are correct - 2years 9 months service? Can I ask if it the amount was just related to overseas service?
I'm pretty sure that on the Medal Roll it gave a date of August 1914 for joining the service.
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Who are we talking about.
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His name is William Hubert Gardiner - he in the Rifle Brigade - service number S6364.
I have not been able to find his service record just the Medal roll, soldiers effects and details of his death in March 1918
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I'm pretty sure that on the Medal Roll it gave a date of August 1914 for joining the service.
There are two Medal Rolls --
The one for the British War Medal and Victory Medal does not show a date of enlistment. However, it does show that he was first with the 12th Battalion and then with the 1st Battalion.
The Medal Roll for the 1914/15 Star medal shows that he disembarked into a Theatre of War on the 21st July 1915. This date is confirmed by his Medal Index Card which also shows that the Theatre of War was France.
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As approximately two thirds of WW1 service records were destroyed during the WW2 bombing of London, researchers have to look at other surviving records that may give an idea of a soldier's enlistment date. One such set of records to look at are the registers for soldiers who were discharged from service due to wounds / sickness -- these registers are known as the Silver War Badge Records, 1914-1920. Using these records I looked for soldiers that had been discharged and that their service number was close to that of Gardiner -- my search came up with --
S6319 -- Lord, H -- enlisted 21/11/1914
S6333 -- Edwards, A -- enlisted 22/11/1914
S6364 -- Gardiner, WH
S6407 -- Sansum, G -- enlisted 23/11/1914
Cross referencing these three men to their entry in the Medal Rolls, I find tyhat all three were in the 12th battalion, Rifle Brigade. I feel that it is safe to say that Gardiner enlisted on either the 22nd or 23rd November 1914.
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I meant to add that the Medal Index Cards for Lord and Edwards also show that they entered a Theatre of War, France, on the 21st July 1915 -- the same day as Gardiner.
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This certainly raises a question about the amount of gratuity his widow
received.
Gratuity was calculated from enlistment providing the man served overseas at some point
which obviously he did.
There were disqualifying periods as listed below courtesy of the LLT:
Service previous to date of conviction for desertion, unless that service had been restored under King’s Regulations;
Any period of penal servitude, imprisonment or detention exceeding 28 days;
Any continuous period of absence without leave exceeding 28 days;
Any period of service in which the man had been in receipt of civilian wages (for example, as a member of Class W Army Reserve).
From this it's quite possibly he went into Reserve ( & back to his day job) as his Btn.
were still UK based & recalled just prior to embarkation.
This was quite a common occurrence.
Academic really as AllanUK has given the probable attestation date.
As an aside he was at Berneville France W. of Arras on the day he died.
This was at the beginning of the German Spring Offensive.
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Thankyou AllanUK - using the records of the Silver War Badge service numbers listed near to this man's number is an excellent bit of deduction.
Also I note that Jim1 has usually given the criteria when credit towards a pension would not be counted and one of these is if the man went back into the reserves for a time. I know that WH Gardiner's wife did have the birth of a child born in Sept 1/4 1916 so that could be a possibility.
Can I ask Jim how did you find the information that he was at Berneville on the day he died?
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From the Btn. war diary.
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Jim1- your knowledge and help with this query is much appreciated Thank you
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A bit more knowledge but not particularly germane to this.
He went overseas June 21st. 1915 & she registered a birth in Sept. 1916.
Even if with a late registration the numbers don't add up.
To give her the benefit of the doubt he may have been granted
compassionate leave at the end of 1915.
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Oh! I completely missed that detail around dates.
I will need to look again at what I’ve collected along the way. William H Gardiner did have a brother who died in 1915 so maybe the idea of compassionate leave might tie in. I’m not at home at the moment to find my various scribbles about this marriage. Jim1 you have made me think again - my original query around pensions was because I was just wondering what happened to a widow. I’ll come back once I’ve checked.
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I have now checked the details I had previously found. The birth of the child is August 6th (reg Sept 1/4) 1916 so not a late registration. With Jim1’s possible suggestion that maybe the father has been given compassionate leave in 1915 I had wondered if that was indeed the case as I know a brother had died in 1915. However he died in April 1915 so I do not think any compassionate leave would have extended towards the last few months of the year.
One of those things we’ll probably never know. Thankyou Jim1 though for pointing that it out as I had not noticed the discrepancy in dates.