RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Nifty1 on Friday 01 November 24 16:18 GMT (UK)
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sarajayne3001
Attached to Percy Oliver Kirtland
Birth 10 Jun 1898
Death Apr 1993
I have had a bit of a breakthrough and would like to make
contact with anybody with an interest in the above family.
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Have you checked the Surname Interests Board?
Scroll to bottom of page & link is under TOOLS
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Thanks Carol. I will give it a go.
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I have not found what I am looking for but I found this that I agree with
quote author=Albufera32 link=topic=886919.msg7601036#msg7601036 date=1730461749]
Of course, primary sources, such as birth, death and marriage registers, are only as accurate as the knowledge (or honesty) of the informant allows.
Even primary sources may be incorrect, which is why it is normally regarded as the gold standard to have a minimum of three pieces of evidence. In an ideal world, those would all be irrefutable, but sadly when it comes to family history even the most apparently reliable sources may be complete fiction.
Quite apart from the obvious case of a father registering a birth completely unaware of his wife's dalliance with the milkman, both marriage and death registers may be incorrect either because the informant deliberately lied or made an honest mistake (which in turn may just be a lapse of memory or simple ignorance).
Primary sources are certainly not guaranteed to be accurate. In an ideal world, all sources should be backed up by further evidence, and three sources is often considered the minimum standard, but in the messy world of family history research, three reliable sources may not be easy to find. Even if you have three statutory registers of birth death and marriage they may not quite agree and there may be a question as to the reliability of an informant's information. Ultimately it is still a judgement call much of the time - do I consider these sources adequate proof that this is the correct person to fit in my tree?
The point I was actually trying to make is that Ancestry trees are sources just like any other (secondary sources, but sources all the same) and like any other source, it is necessary to make a judgement of how much weight they should carry. Whether you consider the information from an Ancestry tree reliable enough to add into your tree as valid is, ultimately, down to your judgement.
In summary of both my posts here, what I am really saying is - an Ancestry tree is a source like any other (secondary) source. Please just don't dismiss what might be the one clue to solving that obstinate brick wall without even looking just because it comes from an Ancestry Tree. Check the source and make the judgement call.
[/quote]
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That is copied from a current thread - in fact the one above in the access list. Not a great step forward ? :D
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What connection is that lengthy reply from another thread to your "trying to make contact" request?
Where did you get the Kirtland info in your post?
There is a tree on Ancestry but not with the user name you quote
There is no middle name of Oliver on his birth reg
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So far as I am aware, I am not linked to any of the names listed in O/P's list under their posts, at least not at the locations listed. I do have Browns and Wilsons in my tree, but mostly from the mining communities of the Scottish central belt.
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What connection is that lengthy reply from another thread to your "trying to make contact" request?
None
Where did you get the Kirtland info in your post?
Ancestry. My sub has lapsed hence I can not make contact.
There is a tree on Ancestry but not with the user name you quote
I will take another look, when I can.
There is no middle name of Oliver on his birth reg.
My mistake maybe.,Son of one of Geaorge Henry K’s mariages.
I will try and clarify asap
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Thanks Carol. I will give it a go.
All I could find was
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=834772.msg6997556#msg6997556
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sarajayne3001
Attached to Percy Oliver Kirtland
Birth 10 Jun 1898
Death Apr 1993
I have had a bit of a breakthrough and would like to make
contact with anybody with an interest in the above family.
There is a tree ‘owned’ by this person - ‘Burrell- Paisley family tree’ but they have not been on Ancestry for 3-11 months.
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That is copied from a current thread - in fact the one above in the access list. Not a great step forward ? :D
One small step for man.
I feel a bit like the young Dutch Boy in the tale of him having his finger in the dyke.
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sarajayne3001
Attached to Percy Oliver Kirtland
Birth 10 Jun 1898
Death Apr 1993
I have had a bit of a breakthrough and would like to make
contact with anybody with an interest in the above family.
There is a tree ‘owned’ by this person - ‘Burrell- Paisley family tree’ but they have not been on Ancestry for 3-11 months.
Thanks for that. Not great news but not the end of the world, nor my quest.
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Percy's middle name appears on his marriage certificate 21 Dec 1921 to Florence Ellen Gertrude Razzell..
He's just baptised as Percy - no middle name. He's Percy O Kirtland on the 1939 register
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Thanks Crisane.
That was probably where I got my info from, though I am in possession of copies of family letters and documents he may have been mentioned there. I think that there was another birth in the family who had the same name, unfortunately that died as an infant. George H. Kirtland had two wives. The first lost a child giving birth to it. Apparently that was a baby girl, so it looks like there was more than one death amongst the Windsor Kirtland family.
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Good ole snail mail.
I was trying to make contact with descendants of a family and found on Ancestry the Electoral Roll addresses of some of the family members. The dates on the Electoral Rolls were from 2010 - 2018 so it would be a bit of a long shot.
6 brief letters sent, worded to offer intrigue, had responses from 3.
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So, I think Percy was born When George HK was at Church Terrace (or was it Lane) opposite the southern entrance to the castle. He seems to have lived in two houses there. Is the number of house given?
This is one of GHK’s carriages. My late uncle pictured restored it in the mid 1960s.
He sold it and subsequently sold it. He saw it at an auction in the 1980s or earley 1990s when the pic was taken. At the time it was in very much worse condition. He wrote to Country Life about the history of the carriage. I think it may be possible to know where it originated.
# I notice that there is a lot number on the carriage. The auction would probably have been in the Windsor area. Perhaps it would be possible to get a look at the auction catalogue?
https://share.icloud.com/photos/01fG83aXpPP2xKazuQOZm0paw
In 1898 GHK was living at 50(?) Bolton Road, Windsor. Probably managing one of his father’s shops.
Seems that there was probably a connection with my bookie grandfather. He had a house or flat there before he died in 1960. Rewind. At least his wife was there in 1956.
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There is a tree ‘owned’ by this person - ‘Burrell- Paisley family tree’ but they have not been on Ancestry for 3-11 months.
That tree only mentions one sife. Other trees show both.
In 1901, when Percy is 2 yrs, the family are at 6 Oxford Terrace.
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Where did you get the Kirtland info in your post?
Ancestry. My sub has lapsed hence I can not make contact.
I don't know how strapped you may be for cash, but a month's sub is only about 15 quid ? :-\
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Where did you get the Kirtland info in your post?
Ancestry. My sub has lapsed hence I can not make contact.
Even if your sub has lapsed you still have a free registered guest account and can still send and receive messages - see link below.
https://support.ancestry.co.uk/s/article/Free-Registered-Guest-Accounts
Quote from the above link:
As a registered guest, you can:
Search our free databases
Activate an AncestryDNA kit
Access help articles in the Support Center
Create, edit, and delete family trees
View educational videos in Ancestry Academy™
Share your trees with friends and family
See family trees you're invited to view
View your AncestryDNA® ethnicity estimate and matches
(if you've taken an AncestryDNA test and have matches turned on)
Share your AncestryDNA results with others
View DNA results shared with you
Send and receive messages
Post to Message Boards on Ancestry
Read tips from our experts on the Ancestry Blog
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sarajayne3001
Attached to Percy Oliver Kirtland
Birth 10 Jun 1898
Death Apr 1993
I have had a bit of a breakthrough and would like to make
contact with anybody with an interest in the above family.
There is a tree ‘owned’ by this person - ‘Burrell- Paisley family tree’ but they have not been on Ancestry for 3-11 months.
I think this might be bad news as far as making contact with anybody who might have unpublished knowledge of family. One never knows without evidence and unless one asks.
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There is a tree on ancestry which has both wives of Henry George and their respective children. The owner is Lynne Mills and she was last active today.
Using information from that tree George Henry Kirtland and Alice Elizabeth Palmer had a daughter Phyllis Lorraine Nancy Kirtland 1915 - 2006. Looking at FreeBMD she married in March 1/4 1942 Windsor registration district. Marriage reported in the Bath Weekly Chronicle and Herald
Sat, 28 Mar 1942 ·Page 9 Victor Jack Rodway at the time of his marriage was an aircraftman. He died in the Bath reg dist in 1984.
So using the husbands surname (who is not recorded in Lynne Mills tree) I used FreeBMD to search for any children to them. Found 3 all registered in the Bath reg dist. in 1943, 1950 and 1953
There is a marriage of one of the daughters Of Phyllis Kirtland and Victor Jack Rodway in Bath reg dist in Dec 1/4 1964. This couple had two daughters one Dec 1/4 1966 and March 1/4 1969.
I don't know what specific information you are seeking but looking at some records for Thomas Kirtland and his son George Henry I can see Henry as a cab driver in 1901, 1911 censuses and GH is recorded as a labourer on Percy's marriage record and the 1939 register.
Anyway this kept me occupied on a cold Sunday morning as an exercise in finding living descendants of the Kirtland clan :) and the same can be done for the others if need be.
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Thanks for that crisane.
This is off of the top of my head and may contain errors
More than 10 years ago one of her children contacted me through a website. She was a second cousin, my gf’s older brother. I have actually met her quite a few times since. She had done a lot of research and lent me her research that consisisted of her findings Anout GHK who was a Windsor cab driver and inherited a carriage from his mother when she died in 1918.( I have a handwritten copy of the will she made, I shall try and get a pic posted) we have entertained each other, staying over at each others houses several limes. Through her I know quite a lot about GHK and her mother who married and moved to Bath. One of the stories that she sold me related about the tie her gradfather had a tip off go and pick ‘the prince’ up from a pub and take him back to the castle at the time it was raided by the police.
One can search as much as one likes about this but I think it very unlikely that they would find and corroborating evidence- unless there was anythingabout it in the Duty Book of Windsor police station
Does anyone know where such a thing may be?
# There were quite a lot of Thomas Kirtland’s. Temp pic of Thomas James with sos Thomas and his younger brother.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0fd2A2YX7Nu0W5VLkMVl8ekqg
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I am trying to find out more about the photographer who took the picture in the link above.
Similarly, I trying to find out the photographer who took pictures of Miss Windsor at Clewer Carnival in 1946.
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Last post was not worded well.
I would be very grateful if anybody could take a look at the link a couple of posts up and see if they can find anything recorded about a photographer at 14 (14?) Oxford Rd, Windsor in/abt. 1890s.
I’ll post more info on this post when I find it.
When Thomas James Kirtland was born in 1847 in Summertown, Oxfordshire, England, his father, William, was 39, and his mother, Sophia, was 29.
By the time of the 1871 census Thomas was living in Clewer at 11 Gardners Cottages.
On December 25th ? 1894 Thomas J's marriage to Emma Lipscombe was Solemised by George, D. Nicholas ?
He was previously a batchelor, Bricklayer who lived at York Place and Emma was a spinster who also lived at York Place.
In 1900 Thomas James Kirtland was the householder of 4 Greenham Place Windsor. His son, Thomas William lived next door at no. 3.
It
What happened to the house at York Place? I have an idea the William junior had a had in building it.
This copy was probably made in connection with TJK's death
I
They had eight children in 21 years. Some seem to have died young.
In May 1904
Mrs. Emma Kirtland, wife of Thomas James Kirtland, of 82, Oxford-road, Windsor, said her daughter Eva was aged eleven years. Mrs. Florence Ellen Drake, wife ...
Published: Saturday 24 September 1904
Is 82 a misprint for 32 ?
According to a certified copy of TJK's and EL's Marriage Cert dated 29/1/1909 and signed by Arthur,J. L. Cowrie, Rector,
TJK died 28th Janurary 1909 at the age of 64 at his sons pub, The Sun at Pescod Street in Windsor and was buried in St Andrew’s Curch graveyard at Clewer
Other sources put the death at 23rd January
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You write:
“By the time of the 1871 census Thomas was living in Clewer at 11 Gardners Cottages.
On December 25th ? 1894 Thomas J's marriage to Emma Lipscombe was Solemised by George, D. Nicholas ?
He was previously a batchelor, Bricklayer who lived at York Place and Emma was a spinster who also lived at York Place.”
You have Thomas in 1871 - he is married to Emma by then. They married in 1869 not 1894.
His father William and family were in York Place in 1871.
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I think that what to state is probably correct. Thanks for pointing it out.
Though could be a moot point for two main reasons
The unreliability of info got from digital information
I have original documents concerning the family that demonstrate the lack of exact record keeping and education at the time. There is an anomaly with the documents in my possession.
Re York Pace do you have any more details on the house?
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No, three main reasons.
Firstly…….
Hold on, I’ll come in again ;)