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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: Alison55 on Tuesday 22 October 24 16:01 BST (UK)
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My great-great grandparents were from the Catholic parish of Castletownroche, civil parish of Bridgetown. Their children's baptisms show the place they lived as Clifford or Inches. I easily found the townland of Clifford but have never been able to figure out where or what Inches is. Their names were Patrick Quinlan and Margaret Gorman. They immigrated to New York City with their children in three separate voyages from 1849 to 1851.
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Here are the parish registers- https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632866?locale=en#page/1/mode/1up
Can you either post links or tell us date of baptisms and names of children so we can check the full pages.
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Clifford is by a river with islands, I think Inches refers to the islands, so it's a descriptive name for the townland.
Inch often appears in placenames.
See this place called Inch
https://www.logainm.ie/en/2181/#:~:text=Glossary,English%20island%3B%20river%20meadow
Same in Scotland according to this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch_(disambiguation)#:~:text=%22Inch%22%20in%20Scottish%20and%20Irish,Ireland
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All I can think is that this reflects changes in the make-up of that area and its component names between the OS and earlier times. There are several Irish newspaper notices of a sale of property in Co. Cork in 1879/80, with references to leases dating back to the second half of the 18th century, such as the "Lands of Ballinaraha being part of the said Lands of Bridgetown", the "Lands known by the name of the West Inches, being part of the Lands of Bridgetown Lower" and "such parts of Ballinaraha and the West Inches, comprising what is now called on the Ordnance Survey Clifford".
I couldn't get my head around the NAI Tithe Applotment Books, for Bridgetown seems to be recorded under County Kildare, yet some of the names in the page images seem to resonate, eg. Inches, Ballinaraha, Kilquain (Kilquane?), Cluin (Cloon?) - or am I looking at the wrong area? My eyes aren't great, see what you think...
https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/index.jsp
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Sadly it's not unusual for places to be listed under an incorrect county in the Applotment Books.
Looking back or forward through the pages will usually resolve which county it should be in.
The first page for Bridgetown also lists Kilcummer.
https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587408/004587408_00584.pdf
possibly Cork is written on the sideways sticker but it's very faint, there is C for sure but is there any more than that.
At least there isn't a Bridgetown or Kilcummer in Kildare and both are in Cork and in the same Barony and PLU of Fermoy so listing them together in the Applotment books makes sense at least.
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Thank you for all the helpful replies and suggestions. The Tithe Applotments site is a bit of a mess but I think that is the right place. And there seems to be a Thomas Gorman listed. I suspect it was my Gorman ancestors living there and the Quinlans nearby in Kilcummer perhaps. Thank you, Gaffy, for mentioning the sale of the lands that mention Inches.
Patrick Quinlan and Margaret Gorman were married in Castletownroche RC parish on 5 May 1831. They had six children in Ireland for whom I found baptisms, helped by Patrick's list in the 1850 US census when, in fact, all but one were still in Ireland. Didn't he understand the question or was he eager to make his children Americans? I'll never know. The first child, Thomas?, must have died as there is no record of him other than his baptism. Then were born Ellen, Mary, John, James, Thomas (another) and finally Patrick who was born in New York.
The baptisms seem to mostly say Clifford. That was an estate with formal gardens, as can be seen on the OS map. It overlooks the River Blackwater and is quite scenic. The house has been restored. I assume my ancestors were employed by the estate.
The second Thomas Quinlan, the last child born in Ireland, was baptized 27 June 1846, same parish. The address is given as Inches. I'll try to attach the link.
I have been doing this for fifteen years and hope the Inches mystery can be solved. Thanks again.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632866?locale=en#page/99/mode/1up
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Thank you for all the helpful replies and suggestions. The Tithe Applotments site is a bit of a mess but I think that is the right place. And there seems to be a Thomas Gorman listed. I suspect it was my Gorman ancestors living there and the Quinlans nearby in Kilcummer perhaps. Thank you, Gaffy, for mentioning the sale of the lands that mention Inches.
Patrick Quinlan and Margaret Gorman were married in Castletownroche RC parish on 5 May 1831. They had six children in Ireland for whom I found baptisms, helped by Patrick's list in the 1850 US census when, in fact, all but one were still in Ireland. Didn't he understand the question or was he eager to make his children Americans? I'll never know. The first child, Thomas?, must have died as there is no record of him other than his baptism. Then were born Ellen, Mary, John, James, Thomas (another) and finally Patrick who was born in New York.
The baptisms seem to mostly say Clifford. That was an estate with formal gardens, as can be seen on the OS map. It overlooks the River Blackwater and is quite scenic. The house has been restored. I assume my ancestors were employed by the estate.
The second Thomas Quinlan, the last child born in Ireland, was baptized 27 June 1846, same parish. The address is given as Inches. I'll try to attach the link.
I have been doing this for fifteen years and hope the Inches mystery can be solved. Thanks again.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632866?locale=en#page/99/mode/1up
Hi Alison I was speaking yesterday to a man now 95yrs old he confirmed the name Inches in Castletownroche as he grew up there & by coincidence he mentions the name Gorman living there
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Thanks so much for that. Very interesting. I wish I were there to chat with him. Our elders are often a font of knowledge found nowhere else. It would be great if I still had cousins there.
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Thanks so much for that. Very interesting. I wish I were there to chat with him. Our elders are often a font of knowledge found nowhere else. It would be great if I still had cousins there.
Alison did the children of Patrick Quinlan & Mgt Gorman remain in Ireland
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Alison did the children of Patrick Quinlan & Mgt Gorman remain in Ireland
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No, they did not. The entire family emigrated in three separate voyages. I assume they didn't have the money for all to travel at once. Patrick Quinlan in 1849, his wife Margaret Gorman Quinlan with their oldest son, John, age 11, in 1850, and teen-age Ellen with the three youngest children, Mary, James (my great-grandfather), and Thomas (second of the name) in 1851. Little Thomas Quinlan did not survive the voyage, alas.
Ellen also had charge of at least one young cousin, Denis Creeden. Denis' parents were Daniel Creeden and Mary Gorman Creeden, sister of Margaret Gorman Quinlan. The Creedens emigrated about the same time with their oldest son Patrick and baby John.
But it's possible, even likely, that Patrick Quinlan and wife Mary Gorman had siblings and/or cousins who remained in Castletownroche and nearby.
Thank you for the reply, ballydw.
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Alison did the children of Patrick Quinlan & Mgt Gorman remain in Ireland
No, they did not. The entire family emigrated in three separate voyages. I assume they didn't have the money for all to travel at once. Patrick Quinlan in 1849, his wife Margaret Gorman Quinlan with their oldest son, John, age 11, in 1850, and teen-age Ellen with the three youngest children, Mary, James (my great-grandfather), and Thomas (second of the name) in 1851. Little Thomas Quinlan did not survive the voyage, alas.
Ellen also had charge of at least one young cousin, Denis Creeden. Denis' parents were Daniel Creeden and Mary Gorman Creeden, sister of Margaret Gorman Quinlan. The Creedens emigrated about the same time with their oldest son Patrick and baby John.
But it's possible, even likely, that Patrick Quinlan and wife Mary Gorman had siblings and/or cousins who remained in Castletownroche and nearby.
Thank you for the reply, ballydw.
[/quote] Alison I came across the following Baptisms in Castletownroche with residence given as Inches. Ellen Gorman 24 June 1813 Parents Thomas Gorman Catherine Regan. Edmund Gorman 14th April 1812 same parents. The registers for baptisms here didnt start until 1811 so not possible to establish parents of either Patrick Quinlan & Mgt Gorman. I hope to speak to my older contact & will let you know if he can provide any further information . Do you know if the Quinlans were resident in the same area as the Gormans? Rgds Frances
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Thank you for that great information, Frances. They certainly look like relatives.
The best I can do on where the Quinlans lived was in nearby Kilcummer. At the 1831 marriage of Patrick Quinlan and Margaret Gorman, the witnesses were David Hennessy and Johanna Hanlon. David Hennessy married a Margaret Quinlan on 12 February 1829 in the parish of Annakissy. This couple also immigrated to New York City and remained very close to the Quinlan-Gorman family there. Margaret Quinlan Hennessy's obit in the NY Herald says she was from 'Kilcoorner', a misspelling of Kilcummer. Kilcummer is 'an ancient parish now part of Castletownroche', according to Grove White. So this indicates the Quinlans were from the same close area as the Gormans. Again, thank you.
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Thank you for that great information, Frances. They certainly look like relatives.
The best I can do on where the Quinlans lived was in nearby Kilcummer. At the 1831 marriage of Patrick Quinlan and Margaret Gorman, the witnesses were David Hennessy and Johanna Hanlon. David Hennessy married a Margaret Quinlan on 12 February 1829 in the parish of Annakissy. This couple also immigrated to New York City and remained very close to the Quinlan-Gorman family there. Margaret Quinlan Hennessy's obit in the NY Herald says she was from 'Kilcoorner', a misspelling of Kilcummer. Kilcummer is 'an ancient parish now part of Castletownroche', according to Grove White. So this indicates the Quinlans were from the same close area as the Gormans. Again, thank you.
Alison will update you if I unearth any further information on Gorman/Quinlan.
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Thank you very much, Frances. I appreciate the help.