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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: CGPennington54 on Sunday 20 October 24 18:33 BST (UK)
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Clara Barker(b. A-J 1883) married Thomas Grogan(b. About 1881) on 28 Sep 1901 at St. Peter’s, Birstall. The last certain record I have of either was the 1911 Census where Clara and her only surviving son Harold Grogan was living at 54 Westgate in Cleckheaton with her widowed father, John William Barker. Thomas Grogan was absent from the Census.
However, a Thomas Grogan born in Ireland in 1881 was an inmate at Armley Jail in Leeds, about 9 miles from Cleckheaton, and he was described as being married and a general labourer. Could this be him?
On their marriage record Thomas was described as a miner, the son of Elijah. I’ve not found any UK Census records for Elijah and Thomas (apart from the possible 1911 Armley one). When his son Harold married in 1924 Thomas was named as NOT deceased and as a miner. This occupation casts some doubt that the Thomas Grogan in Armley Jail was the correct person.
After 1911 they’ve just disappeared. Son Harold remained local to Cleck/Dewsbury.
Can anyone shed any light on what became of Clara and Thomas?
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There's a death for a Thomas Grogan born about 1881 registered in Leeds in October 1922. The fact that he wasn't shown as deceased on the marriage certificate when Harold married in 1924 can't be taken to mean he was definitely alive then. Sometimes the father might be noted as deceased and sometimes not, there was no requirement to state which was the case.
Ermy
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Clara Barker is in the 1901 census for Cleckheaton with her parents John William and Mary and siblings George and Edith. There is also a boarder, Thomas Wiggins a coal miner aged 18 born Leeds. Interestingly, there is a baptism for a Thomas Wiggins aged 5 in 1886 in Leeds. His father is shown as Elijah Wiggins and mother is Margaret (they were married in 1882 and Margaret's maiden name was Grogan). There is an earlier baptism for a Thomas Grogan, mother Margaret, no father given at St Marks, Woodhouse, Leeds also in 1882. I surmise therefore that the lodger with the Barker family in the 1901 census is Thomas Grogan whose father was actually Elijah Wiggins.
Ermy
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Ermy that looks interesting I had just looked at the 1901 census and wondered about Thomas Wiggins
Thomas Wiggins age 21 occupation miner
Birth Place Leeds
Event Date 8 Dec 1902
Prison or Quarter Session HMP Wakefield
Location Wakefield, West Yorkshire
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There's a Thomas Wiggins, nephew, staying with/visiting Thomas and Triphena (nee Wiggins) Tate in Leeds in the 1891 census, this could potentially be him
Ermy
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Could this be him on 1891 census
Piece 3687
Folio 10
Page 15
10, High Markland Street, Leeds
Thomas Tate 43 Head
Triphena Tate 43 Wife
Thomas Wiggins 9 Leeds Nephew
Sarah E Lightowler 4 Niece
Possible marriage
Dec 1871
TATE Thomas Leeds 9b 590
Female name on same page
WIGGINS Tryphena Leeds 9b 590
Snap Ermy posting whilst red writing
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1861 census RG9/3390/65 p16
9, Pickard Street, Leeds, Yorkshire
Thomas Wiggins Head 42 Rope maker b Bridport, Dorset
Miram Wiggins Wife 37 b Thorne, Yorkshire
Triphena Wiggins Daughter 14 - Sheffield, Yorkshire
Tom Wiggins Son -8 b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Susan Wiggins Daughter 7 b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Eligha Wiggins son 1- Sheffield, Yorkshire
1871 RG10/4562/85 p27
Pickard Street, Leeds, Yorkshire
Thomas Wiggins Head 52 Rope maker b London, Bedfordshire
Miriam Wiggins Wife 45 b Thurne, Yorkshire
Tripena Wiggins Daughter 23 b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Tom Wiggins Son 18 Cloth mills b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Elijah Wiggins Son 10 Scholar b Sheffield
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Could this be a possibility death of Thomas Wiggins (Grogan) :-\
Thomas Wiggins Age 55
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun 1937
Registration district Leeds North Yorkshire West Riding
Volume 9b Page 361
Burial
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/227616608/thomas-wiggins
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Thanks all for the suggestions that Thomas Grogan and Thomas Wiggins could be one and the same. It will be interesting to research. Other suggestions still welcome!
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I researched Thomas' parents Elijah Wiggins and his wife Margaret and it turns out that Margaret's maiden name was Grogan, as per their marriage index record for Apr-Jun 1882 in Leeds. Thomas was born before his parents married and obviously chose to take his mother's maiden name, possibly because it seems Margaret had been deserted by Elijah (according to a reformatory school report for Thomas in 1894). Margaret also served short prison sentences in 1893/94 for being drunk and disorderly.
Thanks everyone for your help.
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Clara Barker(b. A-J 1883) married Thomas Grogan(b. About 1881) on 28 Sep 1901 at St. Peter’s, Birstall.
The last certain record I have of either was the 1911 Census where Clara and her only surviving son Harold Grogan was living at 54 Westgate in Cleckheaton with her widowed father, John William Barker. Thomas Grogan was absent from the Census.
However, a Thomas Grogan born in Ireland in 1881 was an inmate at Armley Jail in Leeds, about 9 miles from Cleckheaton, and he was described as being married and a general labourer. Could this be him?
After 1911 they’ve just disappeared. Son Harold remained local to Cleck/Dewsbury.
Can anyone shed any light on what became of Clara and Thomas?
John is living at the same address in 1921 from West Yorkshire, England, Electoral Registers, 1840-1962
John William Barker
Residence Date 1921
Residence Place Spen Valley, West Yorkshire
Street Address 54 Westgate
Clara is not listed with her father John on the 1921 ER although her son Harold Grogan is listed with his grandfather years 1923/24 and year 1930.
Not seeing an obvious death entry for Clara Grogan after 1911. Could Clara have remarried?
Edit to add
Don't think it's the 1915 Wakefield Foody/Grogan marriage as the children have mmn Grogan nor the 1915 Preston Hodson/Grogan marriage
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Interestingly, there is a baptism for a Thomas Wiggins aged 5 in 1886 in Leeds. His father is shown as Elijah Wiggins and mother is Margaret (they were married in 1882 and Margaret's maiden name was Grogan).
There is an earlier baptism for a Thomas Grogan, mother Margaret, no father given at St Marks, Woodhouse, Leeds also in 1882.
For info. I've added a snippet of the two baptisms records mentioned by Ermy
1886 shows PB = Private Baptism dob 16 July 1881
1882 dob 16 Nov 1881
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I researched Thomas' parents Elijah Wiggins and his wife Margaret and it turns out that Margaret's maiden name was Grogan, as per their marriage index record for Apr-Jun 1882 in Leeds.
Yorkshire BMD
WIGGINS Elijah
GROGAN Margaret
1882 St Mark, Woodhouse Leeds