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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: petey22 on Saturday 19 October 24 20:23 BST (UK)
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dear all,
I have come across a document on Ancestry which reads: 'Elizabeth of English and Elizabeth Tiffen born 16th april 1800'. England & Wales, Non-Conformist and Non-Parochial Registers, 1567-1936. Rg4: Registers of Births, Marriages and DeathsSuffolk, Independent, Piece 1861: Sudbury, Great Meeting, Friar Street, Little Or Lower Meeting (Independent), 1707-1837.
I am assuming that 'English Tiffen' is the same 'James English Tiffen' who appears in many trees living in Bulmer, Essex where it also seems his other children are born. There are a few other 'English Tiffen's' knocking around the general area, so I am looking to see if assumptions have been made in the building of some of the trees on internet.
Which leads to my question,,,, or questions (before I start dissecting trees);
Is the Independent meeting place on Friar street in Sudbury? Is a meeting place a Church? Would it have served only residents of Sudbury, Suffolk or other towns and villages such as Middleton or Bulmer in Essex? Would a family make use of this register/Church and then revert to their local Church?
Maybe a lot to ask, but could someone please be so kind as to explain (simply) what the non-Conformist or non-Parochial registers and meeting places are/were? I am guessing it has something to do with not following the general doctrines of the Church at that time?
Many, many thanks in advance for any education in this mater ::)
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The phrase "Meeting Place" usually refers to Quakers.
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Hopefully a copy of the inscription has been attached to this post.
So far I have:
James English Tiffen b.07-05-1757 Acton, Suffolk, bap/chr 31-05-1757, Lavenham, Suffolk. Son of Thomas Tiffen and Elizabeth Hart.
He marries, Elizabeth Abbott, bap/chr 30-05-1764, Sudbury, Suffolk at Sudbury 18-04-1799.
They have:
Elizabeth Tiffen b 16-04-1800, Sudbury, Suffolk (entry in attachments). She marries James Ranson 1824 at Bulmer, Essex.
I can only find them in the 1851 census at Hazeleigh, Essex.
James Ranson 52 b Cockfields, Suffolk
Elizabeth Ranson 48 b Bulmer, Essex? why not Sudbury, Suffolk?
@ KGarrad, thanks for that, wow Quakers, something I would never have thought of, again thanks ;D
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There is a James English Tiffen bap Belchamp Otten Essex 14 March 1813 son of James English Tiffen and Mary Gibbons.
Obviously a different family.
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Ipswich Journal 5 May 1849
On the 21st Ult. aged 85 Mrs. Tiffin relict of Mr. English Tiffin farmer of Bulmer Essex.
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Civil registration 1849 Sudbury Elizabeth Tiffin age 85. June quarter vol.12 page 329
a digital image is available for £3.
It might be worth getting to see who reported her death.
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Notes
There is also a Sarah Tiffin bap 5 January 1803 at the same Non Conformist
daughter of English Tiffen and Elizabeth.
There is a Sarah Tiffen who married William Bird 6 November 1837 at Bulmer and in 1841 Elizabeth is living with a William Bird and his wife Sarah
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Hope this helps Ref National Archives. (free to download if you sign in.)
English Tiffen of Bulmer Essex died 1806
dated 12 December 1806
Executor is Daniel Tiffen of Acton? nr. Sudbury Suffolk his brother.
Late brother William Tiffen of Bocking -Miller
Brother John Tiffen (it doesn't say where he lives)
So this gives you three brothers to trace. Daniel, William, John and English all should have the same father.
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Found the marriage of Sarah Tiffen to William Bird on FreeREG.
He was of Little Cornard Suffolk - Farmer his father Thomas Bird.
She was of Bulmer - her father English Tiffen -Farmer
Married by license Witness was her sister Elizabeth Alice Ranson and James Ranson.
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Memorial at Bulmer Essex
Chest Tomb with Pillars.
In memory of Mary wife of G W Lawrence of Sudbury and daughter of English and Elizabeth Tiffen who died September 1837 age 35 years.
Ref: FindMyPast
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James Ranson also was a witness to the marriage of Mary Tiffen to George William Lawrence of St Peter Sudbury at Bulmer 7 May 1829 by License.
The other witness was Elizabeth Garrett and Jeffrey Deal.
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To answer your question "Why not Sudbury Suffolk"
If she had lived all her life in Bulmer Elizabeth made the assumption she was born there, and she probably was, her parents were not C of E and so baptised at the Meeting House in Sudbury.
It's only about 3 miles away, even though in different counties.
I can't find Mary though based on her age at death born circa 1802.
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They are also in Hazleigh 1861 (ancestry)
James Ranson 62 born Cockfield Suffolk, farmer of 360 acres employs 10 men and 5 boys
Elizabeth 59 born Bulmer Essex
Albert Hurrell 7 grandson
1851 transcribed as Ransom.
1871 same place Jenkins Farm Hazleigh transcribed as Ramson
James 73, Elizabeth 70
ADDED FindMyPast
1841 Spital Road, Maldon - Ages were rounded in 1841.
James Ranson 35 Farmer not born in County
Elizabeth 35 born in County
Elizabeth 15 born in County
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Elizabeth Ranson married Charles Hurrell 1849 registered Maldon
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James Ranson died 14 September 1872 Probate was 25 October 1872.
Executors were Elizabeth Ranson widow, the relic of William Bird of Layer Bretton Hall of said county farmer (is this sister Sarah?) and Charles Hurrell of Maldon Farmer.
Ref: FindMyPast Probate Index
It would be worth it to get a copy especially if it names his children.
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Essex Weekly News 27 September 1872
September 14th at Jenkins Farm near Maldon Mr. Ranson aged about 77 years.
Chelmsford Chronicle 20 September 1872 has a more in depth coverage he died at 6 am. and had been ill for some time.
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Hi Amondig,
you certainly have been busy :o.
So James English dies in 1806, a few years after daughter Sarah is born 1803 in Sudbury, so the move to Bulmer happens sometime in between leaving widowed Elizabeth to raise the girls alone. (Maybe Mary c1805 is born at Bulmer?)
Elizabeth is still Mrs. Tiffen when she dies in 1849 Bulmer, so no remarriage. I don't seem to be able to find her in the 1841 census. Will give that a bash later ;D
Thank you again for your help in this ;D
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1841 Census of Bulmer might be easier to find under William Bird age 30, Sarah 35, Laura 2 Ellen 1,
Elizabeth Tiffin (sp) age 70 born circa 1771
Remember ages were rounded for 1841
FindMyPast has the address Bulmer, Sudbury Essex (not Suffolk)
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The Quaker Meeting House is still in Friar Street, Sudbury.
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The Quaker Meeting House is still in Friar Street, Sudbury.
Adding it to my ' places to visit' list for my next trip back over to England ;D
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Petey
Quakers (members of the Society of Friends) were not the only Nonconformists (https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/nonconformists/) to use meeting houses. The National Archives catalogue classifies Quaker records of births, marriages and deaths under RG 6 and other dissenters' registers under RG 4.
As you found, Elizabeth Tiffen's birth is registered in RG 4/1861 (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2493139), "Sudbury, Great Meeting, Friar Street, and Little or Lower Meeting, Suffolk, Denomination: Independent: Births and Baptisms" (1707-1837).
The Independents (also known as Congregationalists) are distinguished from the Friends (Quakers) in a brief history of Sudbury on page 574 of White's 1844 Suffolk directory (https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/History_Gazetteer_and_Directory_of_Suffo/ZgxIAAAAMAAJ?hl=en):
"Here are two Independent Chapels, one built in 1839, and the other erected in 1822, in lieu of the old Presbyterian Meeting-house, which was built about 1710, by a congregation formed in 1662. The latter has an endowment for the minister and the support of a school. Here is also an old Friends' Meeting-house, and a Baptist Chapel, erected in 1834."
GENUKI's church history for the Congregational Chapel in Friars Street, Sudbury (https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SFK/Sudbury/Chapel2), states:
"It was founded in 1631. Presbyterian Meeting-house built here about 1710. New one erected before 1800 (Rel[igious] Census 1851). Rebuilt in 1822. Closed by 1966. New building on site."
Friars House, on the site of the demolished chapel in Friars Street, has been marked with a blue plaque (https://openplaques.org/plaques/51896) by Sudbury Freemen's Trust (see also Sudbury Freemen's Society: "The Gainsborough family vault (https://www.sudburyfreemen.org/the-gainsborough-family-vault-in-friars-street/)").
The later Independent chapel, founded in 1839, was Trinity Chapel (now Christ Church URC - United Reformed Church) in School Street or School Lane, according to GENUKI (https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SFK/Sudbury/TrinityChapel_nowChristChurchURC).
David