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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Cathymjp on Friday 18 October 24 15:00 BST (UK)
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Good afternoon,
The horses on my husband's grandfather's home farm were requisitioned to go overseas in the War. In addition to this, grandfather was also sent with them to look after the horses on the battlefield. Sadly one day when he was having a break eating his lunch behind a
wall a bomb fell on the other side killing all the horses grazing there. He was then sent home. My question is that would he have a Service Record? I have been unable to find anything in his name.
Thank you.
Cathy
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Some two-thirds of WW1 Service Records were destroyed during a WW2 bombing raid.
Have you looked for a Medal Index Card?
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Hi, Thank you for the suggestion. No I have not done that as yet I think that will have to be my next search. I was not sure whether there would be a medal card for someone looking after the horses. It is all a bit vague but it is the story that has been handed down about the Grandfather.
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Would you like to share his name, year of birth and where he lived? This could assist in members in their search to try and help you.
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He may have been in the Army Remount Service who were responsible for the horses.
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As Jebber said the Army Remount Service was responsible for requisitioning
horses & there would have been a comprehensive system of transporting, handling & distributing
them overseas.
They didn't need civilians to help them.
That doesn't mean he didn't serve in some capacity.
We await his name.
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Thank you all for your thoughts on this. I had not heard of the Army Remount Service but from what I can find out about them they seemed to be serving men which does not quite fit in with what we were told about Grandfather's time in the war. However, he died 70 years ago and the generation above us have all passed away. His name was Frederick Francis Parrott. I did have a look at the medal records but could not see anything with the name Francis or initial F listed. It could be I have missed it!!
Cathy
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Do you know where / when he was born? Who did he marry? All could assist in searches.
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I don't know if this is you man....but there is a Fred'k Parrott listed as being in the 'Army Veterinary Corps' number Se/12182.
The reason i suggest this one, is my great grandfather was involved in the care of horses during the war, and was in the Army Veterinary Corps. We understand he use to look after both wounded animals, as well as ones newly arrived from the UK.
This is also a possible pension record for this man, held on Fold3, the ancestry indexs card mentions him living in Newport, Pagnell, Bucks, with a possible wifes name of Hannah
Richard
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That's probably him.
There's usually some element of truth in family stories it's just
a case of which part is.
Being in the AVC makes sense.
His number prefix (SE) denotes he was a special enlistment for the duration.
His NOK is given as Hannah L Parrott (wife).
Does this fit with what you know about the family.
Died 1921 aged 48.
A note about Special Enlistments.
These were specifically for men with particular skills.
They would have to provide some evidence of the skill they were qualified in.
They were also paid a £5 bounty on joining.
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That's probably him.
There's usually some element of truth in family stories it's just
a case of which part is.
Being in the AVC makes sense.
His number prefix (SE) denotes he was a special enlistment for the duration.
His NOK is given as Hannah L Parrott (wife).
Does this fit with what you know about the family.
Died 1921 aged 48.
A note about Special Enlistments.
These were specifically for men with particular skills.
They would have to provide some evidence of the skill they were qualified in.
They were also paid a £5 bounty on joining.
The OP posted that he died 70 years ago -- circa early 1950s -- this man died in 1921. I hope that the OP can give some guidance on his wife's name etc.
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Yes I think AVC Frederick is a red herring.
That Frederick had the middle name Moses not Francis.
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The only death I can find for a Frederick Francis Parrott in the 50's
died 1955 in the Cannock Reg. Dist. aged 62.
Married Daisy Heywood in 1916.
Is this him?
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Hello Allan, Richard and Jim, thank you all very much for searching for me. You are right Jim, that grandfather Frederick died in 1955 and was married to Daisy.
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Do you have his marriage cert. as that will tell you if he
was a farmer or soldier?
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Hi Jim, sadly not but this is something I will apply for. I have not researched my husband's family, I am keeping this project for retirement. ;D
As far as we know from, oral knowledge, he was a farmer. There is someone local to us who knew him and is convinced that he was a serving soldier but none of his children ever mentioned this. I think I will have to some in depth research. I find it odd that I cannot find a medal record, but there are a lot of Fredericks' and without his second initial or name it is like a needle in a haystack. Thank you for your help. If anything comes to light I will let you know.
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With the assistance of fellow WW1 researchers
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You could try tracking down the 1918 Absent Voter's List for
where he was living at the time as this will tell you if he
was serving or not.
It may also give the name of his Regt.
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A search of the British Newspaper Archive produces this fragment from the Staffordshire Advertiser of 14 October 1916, which suggests that he was in the Royal Garrison Artillery at the time of his marriage, OCR issues aside. Obtaining a copy of his 1916 marriage registration would be quite useful at this point I think.
The wedding of pte. Parrott, Royal Garrison Artillery, fourth son of the lat Mr. Frank Parrott, of Seig) ford Grange and ford Hall, Seighford, snd Miss Deis, Mary Tie ...
There are medal index cards for at least two Frederick Parrott's serving with the Royal Garrison Artillery, one with service numbers 850 and 292554, the other with service number 74913.
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Well done CraigM63
That brings it down to 2.
There is a pension ledger card for 292554 Parrott who was in 135 Heavy Bty.
It may give info about any wife he may have. Unfortunately I don't have access to
Fold3.
So there are 3 sources of info for the poster to follow up on, the above ledger,the marriage cert.
& the Electoral Roll.
We await the outcome.
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You are right Jim, that grandfather Frederick died in 1955 and was married to Daisy.
The wedding that CraigM63 posted definitely is your man. The newspaper article clearly states that he was with the Royal Garrison Artillery and that he married Daisy Mary Heywood. One of the bridesmaids was his sister, Florence, and his best man was a Private E Parrott -- his brother??
(image snippet from a larger article courtesy of Find My Past)
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There is a pension ledger card for 292554 Parrott who was in 135 Heavy Bty.
It may give info about any wife he may have. Unfortunately I don't have access to
Fold3.
The pension card reads Pension is being issued by IOW for Frank & Victor Church, stepchildren of the above married man
Frederick Parrott identified as per the 1916 wedding married Miss Daisy Mary Heywood -- I can not find any children linked to Daisy.
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I've also just downloaded the same clipping Allan with the extra text at the bottom which mentions Frederick being selected by Lord Crewe as a tenant of Radford Farm near Whitmore. I will post the full article.
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I pretty much ruled out 292554 Parrott as the 35th. Bty. went to
France in May 1916 & joined the Somme Offensive.
He wouldn't have been granted leave after a couple of months just to get married.
Looking more like the other one unfortunately he's listed as Base Details on the Roll
so not with his Bty.
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The pension card that mentions the step children of Fred Parrott were the children of Frank Church and Sarah A Barrett (married 1910) -- Frank Richard Alfred born 1912 and Victor George born 1913. The pension card for Frank Church clearly records that Sarah remarried and her name was now Parrott.
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A bit off topic but there's an Ernest Parrott RGA whose entry
on the Roll is the next number down to Frederick so looks like they joined together.
Ernest was his younger brother.
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Good morning all,
I am thrilled and delighted with the information you have managed to find out about Frederick. The newspaper article about their wedding is wonderful as no one in the family has a picture of them when they were young. I did look for newspaper articles but could only find Frederick's death which happened when my husband was 3 months old. There are a lot of leads on here for me to follow up but the first thing I am doing is applying for the wedding certificate. Daisy's family were a well known local firm of auctioneers and her mother and my great grandmother were best friends. Thank you all very much for your help and I will keep you posted about any further developments.
I notice from the newspaper clipping that Frederick was granted the tenancy of a farm Radford. This rather implies to me that he did not go back to war after his wedding, and in fact, he became the tenant of a farm called Radwood. Do you think this is possible that he did not go back?
You may like to know that I met Daisy. She lived close to the farm where we are now and I used to visit her. She lived to be 100, and was a lovely lady.
Cathy
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Going back or not wouldn't have been his choice.
Once he attested he would have been in for the duration of the war.
He would have to have been injured or sick in order to get a discharge.
Had he done so he would have been awarded the Silver War Badge
which he doesn't have.
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He very definitely served overseas in a theatre of war, as he wouldn't have been entitled to the British War and Victory medals otherwise. Interestingly, there is a notation on his medal index card that shows that either the medals were never delivered and they were returned, or that there must have been an error on the original medals that he was sent and they were returned to be corrected and reissued. This is indicated by the notation "Retd (1743 K.R. 1912) 8100/Adt" on the card. The key is the last part of the notation, if this was Adjt instead of Adt, it would mean that the medals were returned to be corrected and reissued, in this case however, I think the implication is that they were never delivered and were instead returned for disposal.
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I think the implication is that they were never delivered and were instead returned for disposal.
This is correct.
Had they been returned (for correction) there would have been a return voucher (RV) number & a return date.
It wasn't that uncommon for medals to be refused.
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Good Evening,
Thank you for the further information. I do still wonder where the story of the horses fits into all of this.
On looking into Frederick I notice that his second name Francis is not mentioned at all on his Christening on the 16th April, 1893 or on the census returns for 1901, 1911 and 1921. His middle name Francis is recorded on the National School Admission Register for Stafford Grammar School and on his marriage to Daisy May. It seems quite possible therefore that he might not have used his middle name when joining the military. He was born in Seighford Staffordshire.
Cathy
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On his Medal Roll his rank is Gunner meaning he was responsible
for loading & firing the big guns.
Another rank is Driver & these men drove the horse teams pulling the guns.
There were 6 horses per team.
It was these men who were responsible for caring for the horses.
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Good Evening,
Thank you for the further information. I do still wonder where the story of the horses fits into all of this.
On looking into Frederick I notice that his second name Francis is not mentioned at all on his Christening on the 16th April, 1893 or on the census returns for 1901, 1911 and 1921. His middle name Francis is recorded on the National School Admission Register for Stafford Grammar School and on his marriage to Daisy May. It seems quite possible therefore that he might not have used his middle name when joining the military. He was born in Seighford Staffordshire.
Cathy
If he was Catholic he probably took on the Name Francis as his Second Christian Name
at his Catholic Confirmation Ceremony usually around age 12
My Wife only used hers fron that Age at School then Marriage Records and Census Records since that Age
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You can find out more about the role of the Royal Artillery on this page at the Long Long Trail, but the branch that Frederick was in, the Royal Garrison Artillery, were responsible for the large calibre guns and howitzers that were positioned someway behind the lines and used to lay down artillery barrages in advance of major attacks and the like. Although the movement of these guns became increasingly mechanized as the war progressed, there would have still been a need for large teams of horses to move the guns when required.
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-royal-artillery-in-the-first-world-war/ (http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-royal-artillery-in-the-first-world-war/)
A key part of the war was also these batteries seeking out the other sides' batteries and shelling them to destruction, so I could easily see a scenario where his battery was shelled, with both human and animal casualties.
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Frederick was born 13 March 1893 Registered June Quarter 1893 Stafford Volume 6b page 5 Mother's Maiden Name = Minshuel
He was One of Elevan Children born to Farmer Frank Parrott and Mary Elizabeth Minshull who married in July 1876
Mary Died 1905 and Frank Remarried 1907 Eliza ?
Frederick in 1911 lived with his Brother Joseph on the Farm
He married Daisy Heywood in 1916 and had 5 Children from 1920 - Daughter Daisy in 1930 was also named Frances
Frederick Died 15 May 1955 in Dunston aged 62
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