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Some Special Interests => Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms => Topic started by: tcw25 on Friday 18 October 24 13:54 BST (UK)

Title: Mystery badge with crest
Post by: tcw25 on Friday 18 October 24 13:54 BST (UK)
The badge show in the attached photo was among my late grandparents' things; I had assumed it was regimental and from a British Army uniform during one of the world wars, but an enquiry elsewhere on this forum seems to have ruled that out.  The coat of arms appears to be that of the Earls of Shrewsbury, who as far as I know my family is not connected to in any way, although my grandparents are from the Northwest of England and North Wales. 

Any thoughts on where a cloth badge like this might have appeared (a uniform of an employee of an Earl of Shrewsbury?) and of the possible age of this one?
Title: Re: Mystery badge with crest
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 18 October 24 13:56 BST (UK)
Other post on same topic with replies
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=886574
Title: Re: Mystery badge with crest
Post by: Kiltpin on Friday 18 October 24 14:42 BST (UK)
It is the simplified arms of Talbot, the Earls of Shrewsbury. At some point in the past, one of their houses became a Catholic Boys School - it could be a blazer badge. 

Regards 

Chas
Title: Re: Mystery badge with crest
Post by: tcw25 on Friday 18 October 24 15:17 BST (UK)
That's very helpful, Chas.  I don't suppose you know the school's name?  I see there is a Sir John Talbot School today, but there is no reference to its history (possibly suggesting it's modern). 
Title: Re: Mystery badge with crest
Post by: Kiltpin on Friday 18 October 24 16:24 BST (UK)
All I have is this, from the Wikipedia article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Shrewsbury -

Shrewsbury Place or Shrewsbury House, Isleworth bought by kinsman Sir John Talbot, 1678, passed to the Protestant Duke of Shrewsbury (died 1718), and to the Roman Catholic George Talbot (died 1733), often known in his lifetime as Earl of Shrewsbury. His widow continued to live at Isleworth until her death in 1752, and it was as her chaplain that the first recorded priest ministered in Isleworth. The house was a catholic boys school by 1770 and demolished by 1810. 

Regards 

Chas
Title: Re: Mystery badge with crest
Post by: Jebber on Friday 18 October 24 17:36 BST (UK)
I go with the school Blazer badge, the meaning being something done that cannot be undone.

My own school motto was the  same as the RAF. “Per Ardua Ad Astra” “Through Adversity to the stars.”
Title: Re: Mystery badge with crest
Post by: Sc00p on Friday 18 October 24 21:18 BST (UK)
Check out the watermark somebody added to the panel image.
http://thegreatwar.whitchurch-shropshire.co.uk/whitchurch-grammar-school-memorial/ (http://thegreatwar.whitchurch-shropshire.co.uk/whitchurch-grammar-school-memorial/)
Title: Re: Mystery badge with crest
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 18 October 24 21:41 BST (UK)
Whitchurch Grammar School was founded in 1548 by the Rev. Sir John Talbot and opened in 1550.

Presumably from the Coat-of-Arms of the Talbot family.
The hound is a charge in classical heraldry. In English heraldry, the commonly used variant is the talbot, also blazoned as sleuth-hound, e.g. in the arms of Wolseley of Staffordshire.
Title: Re: Mystery badge with crest
Post by: Albufera32 on Friday 18 October 24 23:10 BST (UK)
Sir John Talbot's School and Sixth form College, which appears to be the successor of the Whitchurch Grammar School still has a school motto of Prest d'accomplier. (According to Wikipedia anyway).

The current school replaced Sir John Talbot Technology College, which in turn seems to have replaced Whitchurch Grammar School.
Title: Re: Mystery badge with crest
Post by: Viktoria on Friday 18 October 24 23:40 BST (UK)
A Talbot was a type of hound ,not sure if one would be on the Coat of Arms of the Talbot family though.
Viktoria.
Title: Re: Mystery badge with crest
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 19 October 24 06:41 BST (UK)
A Talbot was a type of hound ,not sure if one would be on the Coat of Arms of the Talbot family though.
Viktoria.

Arms can be based on puns - as in this case.
In Heraldry, it's called canting arms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canting_arms
Title: Re: Mystery badge with crest
Post by: Albufera32 on Saturday 19 October 24 11:01 BST (UK)
The central figure on the shield and the animal atop the chapeau are both heraldic lions.

The pun in the full coat of arms of the Earls of Shrewsbury is that the supporters are dogs (talbots a medieval breed). There is supposedly a reference to Sir John Talbot, the first Earl Shrewsbury being referred to as "our goode dogge" by the king, but whether that is genuine or apocryphal I cannot establish. Other sources suggest a contemporary poem has the same line.