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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: fisherj on Sunday 13 October 24 00:56 BST (UK)

Title: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: fisherj on Sunday 13 October 24 00:56 BST (UK)
I've had lots of really helpful replies to my earlier post on this forum to do with Joseph Gallagher's service and pension records....

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=886058.18

But I still don't know what 43 Stn was.

Joseph was a 3rd Air Mechanic in the RAF.

He transferred to "43 Stn" from 25 TS (Training School in Norfolk).  And after 43 Stn was discharged on health grounds

I'm guessing that 43 Stn must be written on other air mechanics' service records.   So if anyone can give any information - such as where it was based, what it was and anything practical such as whether servicemen would have leave during the time they were posted here - I would be so grateful!

Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: gaffy on Sunday 13 October 24 09:43 BST (UK)
The No. 43 Training Depot Station was at Chattis Hill, a couple of miles west of Stockbridge in Hampshire:

https://www.ukairfieldguide.net/airfields/Chattis-Hill

Gets various other mentions online, including the likes of this:

'Chattis Hill (See 423?) NE of Chattis Hlll House. Nos. 91, 92, 93 Squadrons later reorganised
as the Wireless Telegraphy School (BE.2, F.2b). Later No. 43 Training Depot Station.'


https://www.airfieldresearchgroup.org.uk/forum/airfield-discussion/1130-ww1-aerodromes-1918-list

Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: Andy J2022 on Sunday 13 October 24 09:59 BST (UK)
I can't remember if this was suggested in the other thread, but you are much more likely to get a useful answer to this niche question on an RAF history forum, or one like WW2Talk (http://ww2talk.com/index.php) which deals with matters to do with the services in World War 2. They tend to have members with specialist knowledge in their subject. A few suggestions below
RAF Research Group (https://www.airfieldresearchgroup.org.uk/forum)
RAF Commands (https://forum.rafcommands.com/forum/research-bibliography-and-online-sources/archives-original-material/27643-air-historical-branch-narratives-air-historical-branch-royal-air-force-now-online?28072-Air-Historical-Branch-Narratives-Air-Historical-Branch-Royal-Air-Force-Now-Online=) This is a link to a specific thread, but you should check out the whole website.
RAF Association (https://rafa.org.uk/blog/2024/08/31/your-raf-family-history/)
RAF Web (http://rafweb.org/)
Maybe Ross (member rafcommands (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=57059) on RootsChat) can suggest some others.
Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: Andy J2022 on Sunday 13 October 24 10:02 BST (UK)
The No. 43 Training Depot Station was at Chattis Hill, a couple of miles west of Stockbridge in Hampshire:
Gaffy, while everything you say is true, the references are to WW1 not WW2 so I wonder if this really answers [b]fisherj's[/b] question.

Posting withdrawn- see below
Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: gaffy on Sunday 13 October 24 10:07 BST (UK)

The No. 43 Training Depot Station was at Chattis Hill, a couple of miles west of Stockbridge in Hampshire:

Gaffy, while everything you say is true, the references are to WW1 not WW2 so I wonder if this really answers fisherj's question.


I was referring to WW1, I found a couple of Royal Air Force records of that era, one for a lieutenant who died in 1918, he was of the '43rd Training Depot Station', the other for someone enrolled in the Women's Royal Air Force in 1918 to serve at 'the 43rd Training Depot Station Chattis Hill Stockbridge, Hants.' I'm sorry you didn't find my answer 'useful', perhaps the OP might.

Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: Andy J2022 on Sunday 13 October 24 10:54 BST (UK)
Gaffy, Apologies, I had misremembered about the time period for fisherj's original post and thought it was concerning WW2.
I think your post above has answered figherj's question.
Andy
Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: fisherj on Sunday 13 October 24 12:00 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for your replies and the links and suggestions for further info are great to have.  I had not come across these through Googling.  Much appreciated.

And yes - my query was re WW1 - 1918 in fact - so in the first year of the RAF.

If 43 Stn stands for Training Depot Station  I'm just curious to know why 25 Training School on his record is abbreviated to 25 TS

Perhaps the units had different functions...?

So the search goes on.

I'm interested to know what life was like for men in the unit - whether they had leave for example.  Especially since his daughter was born in July 1919.   


Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: jim1 on Monday 14 October 24 10:51 BST (UK)
Men were granted leave upon application.
Typically a death of a family member would be sufficient reason even
for men at the Front.
For obvious reasons men on home service were more likely to be granted leave
more often.
Looking at the difference between a TS & TDS the only reference I can find
is that a TDS was also an "active" airbase used for home defence as well as
a training establishment.
A possible scenario is that a TS was for basic training of new recruits & on
passing that they were posted to a TDS for further training & home defence duties.
Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: fisherj on Monday 14 October 24 13:19 BST (UK)
Thanks for that Jim1.  Interesting to read about leave being granted.

And I saw that the function of 25 TS included home defence. 

I'm just wondering what the difference is between TS and Stn! 

Many thanks again for your reply.

Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 14 October 24 17:06 BST (UK)

Service Record snippet


The Service record snippet mentions 65 Sqd [Squadron].

65 Squadron
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=65%20Squadron&_cr=AIR&_dss=range&_sd=1914&_ed=1918&_ro=any&_st=adv

You could try a search in the surviving official Squadron record (given in the Service Record) and see if 43 Stn was mentioned?
Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 14 October 24 17:58 BST (UK)
Joseph Gallagher

89314
10653
Adm

Added: re Pension Adm Admitted

Adm is either Admiralty [Navy] or administration.

12.12.1918 was when the Pension started. See next image.
Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 14 October 24 18:06 BST (UK)
Joseph Gallagher

89314

12.12.1918 Date of Commencement of Pension.

Disabilities
Myalgia after Trench Fever

See extract next reply
Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 14 October 24 18:12 BST (UK)
Joseph Gallagher

Myalgia after Trench Fever
Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 14 October 24 20:20 BST (UK)
Link to attachment
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=886431.msg7596287#msg7596287

On the far right of the snippet attachment in the link.

Trans. RAF 1.4.18

The Royal Air Force was formed on 1 April 1918 when The Royal Flying Corps and the Royal Naval Air Service were amalgamated.

Later the Fleet Air Arm formed and before WW2 the Royal Navy had formed the Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS).
 ----------
65 Squadron
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=65%20Squadron&_cr=AIR&_dss=range&_sd=1914&_ed=1918&_ro=any&_st=adv

Later RAF records vary and how much detail was recorded back then and saved, I don't know.

ID required for Readers Ticket
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/about/visit-us/researching-here/do-i-need-a-readers-ticket/
Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 14 October 24 20:33 BST (UK)
Quote
Adm is either Admiralty [Navy] or administration

I thought "Adm" was short for Admitted (to pension)
Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 14 October 24 20:55 BST (UK)
Quote
Adm is either Admiralty [Navy] or administration

I thought "Adm" was short for Admitted (to pension)

Good point Shaun regarding Adm and the pension date on the cards.

Hansard 1919
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1919-07-31/debates/bda57afe-3efc-4978-89ee-7b2bd6e4c813/MinistryOfPensions

The word 'admitted' appears 4 times.

 ... and the local war pensions committees have been authorised, upon the report of the local medical referee, to make full advances pending the decision whether the claim is admitted to pension or not. ...

Interesting the link to Hansard also refers to convalescent centres.
Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Tuesday 15 October 24 10:54 BST (UK)
RAF Records in the PRO published 1994

[ PRO (Public Record Office, Kew), now TNA, Kew ]

Page 35
Airfields and Stations

At the end of the First World War the RAF undertook a survey of all its Aerodromes in the United Kingdom.

A directory - entitled
Quarterly survey of Royal Air Force Stations, British Isles - was issued in six parts, and a set can be found in AIR 1.


Volume I Training Stations

Volume II Parks and Depots
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_cr=AIR%201%2F452%2F15%2F312%2F26&_dss=range&_ro=any&_hb=tna&_st=adv

Volume III Schools

Volume IV Home defence stations and landing grounds (aeroplanes and balloons)
 
Volume V Marine Operations stations (seaplanes, aeroplanes and balloons)
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_cr=AIR%201%2F453%2F15%2F312%2F26&_dss=range&_ro=any&_hb=tna&_st=adv

Volume VI Airship, experimental and miscellaneous stations

The Cat. Reference for Volume VI is apparently amongst the returns in AIR 1/2118
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_cr=AIR%201%2F2118&_dss=range&_ro=any&_hb=tna&_st=adv

RNAS (Royal Naval Air Service) page 7 very brief (more in the book)
The RNAS was originally the Naval Wing of the RFC. The Admiralty took back control of the Wing from the War Offfice in July 1914 and it became known as the Royal Naval Air Service.
 ...
The RNAS was organized in a similar way to the RFC.
 ...

Mentions European places and simply refers to Coastal Air Stations in Britain and from Ships

Many of the most important documents on the history of the RNAS appear in
Capt S W Roskill, Documents relating to the Naval Air Service, Volume 1 : 1908 - 1918 (Naval Records Society, 1969).

 -----------
If going to TNA, Kew.

Personal & Address ID required for Readers Ticket
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/about/visit-us/researching-here/do-i-need-a-readers-ticket/

Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Tuesday 15 October 24 15:19 BST (UK)
This looks an interesting site, have you tried the site Contact?

http://www.airhistory.org.uk/rfc/abbreviations.html

Listed under Casualty
It does look like Adm in relation to the Pension date on the Cards above means Admitted

For RD Recruits/Recruiting Depot (later Reserve Depot)

We can't post email addresses on here, but there is a Contact section.

Mark
Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: fisherj on Tuesday 15 October 24 17:44 BST (UK)
Thank you for your interest in my query BushInn1746.

Joseph Gallagher enrolled in the RFC as a 2AirMech in July 1917 and became a 3AirMech when the RAF was formed in April 1918.

There is a lot of information on the internet about the role of the RFC/RAF during WW1 - amazing when you consider the first (successful) flight across the Channel was only in 1909.

I have JG's service and pension record info from Fold3/Ancestry - hence my wanting to establish what and where 43 Stn was.  What consituted a "Stn" as opposed to a "TS".




Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: grandarog on Tuesday 05 November 24 19:29 GMT (UK)
May be a red herring ,but have you considered Stn might have been a a miswrite for Sqn (Squadron ) Logical after training to be posted to a Squadron in his case 43 Squadron RFC.
Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: Andy J2022 on Tuesday 05 November 24 20:16 GMT (UK)
May be a red herring ,but have you considered Stn might have been a a miswrite for Sqn (Squadron ) Logical after training to be posted to a Squadron in his case 43 Squadron RFC.
Grandarog, yes I made the same suggestion as you  (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=886058.msg7592409#msg7592409) in the OPs other thread on the subject. However as you can see by the next posting in that thread, there is no doubt about the transcription being correct.
Title: Re: Where and what was 43 Stn?
Post by: fisherj on Wednesday 06 November 24 16:33 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your comments Grandarog and Andy.

I have wondered whether "43 Stn" referred to some medical centre since he was discharged on health grounds on leaving this "unit".

But I have been unable to find any other entry of "43 Stn" relating to another serviceman so can't quite make sense of this.

There is the 43 Training Depot Station at Chattis Hill that is a possibility...  But why didn't the person filling in the form write "TDS"??

(I have put this query on other forums but not had an obvious answer for what could be called a Station.  I'm wondering whether whatever facility it was was situated close to a Railway Station - No. 43!)  Is it at all possible that Railway Stations in England given numbers during the war??

Thanks anyway for reading my post.