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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Korowe on Sunday 06 October 24 08:18 BST (UK)
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Hello would like to ask for some help please in deciphering the 1843 Will for my dad's 3 x Great Grandmother (Sarah Goldsmith) which I have attached.
Ancestry details: England & Wales, Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 1384-1858 for Sarah Goldsmith PROB 11: Will Registers 1842-1844
Piece 1984: Vol. 12, Quire Numbers 551-600 (1843)
I've been able to make out the address which is Charlotte Place Woolwich Kent and that ties back to the baptism records for her children and I can make out the names of some of her children listed in the Will. I can't confirm her maiden name as I have not found a marriage record for her and her husband Peter Goldsmith (1778-1827). And I don't know when or where she was born or who her parents might be. I had hoped there were some clues in this Will about her and if she really did have anything valuable to leave her children? I think I've made out she left her daughter some table spoons...
I'm guessing doing a Will back then would of been costly, so they must have been somewhat well off? Her husband Peter's occupation is listed as "Smith at the Royal Dock Yard", on the children's baptism records. Would that occupation have paid well?
Most of this side of the family lived in Workhouses around East End London, so I'm very surprised to have come across a Will for this branch of the family.
Many thanks and kind regards
Julie
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words in red are those I am unsure of
In the Name of God Amen
I Sarah Goldsmith of Charlotte Place in the Parish of Woolwich in the
county of Kent Widow being of sound mind but aware of the uncertainty of
human life do make and ordain this my last will and testament and first I
commit my soul unto God through the merits of my conduct My worldly
goods I dispose of as follows I bequeath unto William Goldsmith
the sum of 5 pounds sterling To my daughter Celia Goldsmith I bequeath
the two silver tablespoons My freehold house situated in New Street in
the parish of St Nicholas Deptford I direct to be sold to meet the
expenses of administration and funeral and to pay my just debts To my
sons Charles Goldsmith and Thomas Goldsmith I bequeath my leashold
house situated at No 13 in Adams place in the parish of Woolwich jointly and
now in the occupation of Mr Augustus [***lin] To my son George Goldsmith
and to my daughter Sarah Ann Goldsmith I bequeath my dwelling house
situated in Charlotte Place jointly and to my daughter Sarah Ann I [****]
bequeath all my household furniture linen and the residue of my plate My
leashold house situated at No14 Adams place and now in the occupation
of my son William aforesaid I direct to be sold and the residue
of the proceeds after my debts are paid to be equally divided between the
whole of my children who may be living at the time of my decease and I
herby nominate and appoint Mr William Stuart of Mulgrave place in the
parish of Woolwich and Mr WIlliam [?_ling?] of Charlotte place to be
my Executors Sarah Goldsmith X her mark signed sealed
and delivered this 18 day of December 1840 in the presence of Henry [?Roberts?]
John Richards Thomas Richardson
Boo
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Her husband Peter died intestate (did not leave a will) but must have left enough for death duties to be due on the estate
The death duty index is available to preview on the National Archives site and confirms that his widow Sarah was granted administration
go here:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2612174
click the link to preview
in the box under the filmstrip change the image no to 63
either click the full screen icon to see it better- its not watermarked so you could just take a screen shot for your records or create an account with the NA (free) and you can order the file to download free
Boo
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[***lin] = Tanlin (or possibly Taulin, usual u/n problem)
[****] = Likewise
[?_ling?] = Thurling
[?Roberts?] = Probably is Roberts, followed by a little = used to separate the names. (If that's not an =, then might be Henry Robert John Richards - one name - but unlikely.)
David
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thank you David, I was hoping an extra pair of eyes would come along and help - and they did!
Boo
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apologies for the multiple posts but I can only take things in baby steps or I get confused :-)
That index record for admin gives a volume and folio number
I haven't seen an admin abstract so have no idea what info they contain but have a couple of will abstracts which did help my research. These are inland Revenue records so may give an idea of what his estate was valued at and how much the death duties were.
Family Search have digitised these but because of contractual restrictions they are only viewable at a Family History Centre or an affiliate library EDIT can also be viewed at NA as that is an affiliate library
If you have one near you they will let you search and view on their computers and allow you to either download or print the image.
to find your nearest FHC look here:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/522838?availability=Family%20History%20Library
do ring before you visit to be sure they are still open (our nearest is no longer in operation as they didn't have enough volunteers)
go there, using the info from the index image on the NA. - year 1828, vol 1 folio 11
scroll down till you see the entry for
Administration abstracts, A-Z, 1828 (p. 1-230, Jan.-Apr.). film 1817904 image group number 8220572
and from there you should be able to find the record on folio 11
The originals are at the NA and can be ( EDIT ordered to view advance of when you plan to visit see reply from Bookbox) ordered online but there will be a cost to that £8.40 for them to look for it and see if its suitable to be copied at which stage they send you a quote to actually copy it which will be at least that amount again
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3339375
Boo
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(If that's not an =, then might be Henry Robert John Richards - one name - but unlikely.)
The deposition of Thomas Richardson makes the witness names clear:
...signing her mark at the foot or end thereof in the presence
of this deponent and of Henry Roberts and John Richards the other subscribing
witnesses thereto...
Boo, one small correction to your transcript:
...through the merits of my redeemer...
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Boo, one small correction to your transcript:
...through the merits of my redeemer...
Thanks (I am considering asking for a refund on these new specs) now that I look at it again I agree with you.
Boo
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The originals are at the NA and can be ordered to view advance of when you plan to visit
I'm afraid not, because for this date they are accessed at TNA on microfilm only, so they cannot be pre-ordered as documents. In any case, the FamilySearch digitisation (free to access at TNA) is often more legible than TNA's own film.
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The originals are at the NA and can be ordered to view advance of when you plan to visit
I'm afraid not, because for this date they are accessed at TNA on microfilm only, so they cannot be pre-ordered as documents. In any case, the FamilySearch digitisation (free to access at TNA) is often more legible than TNA's own film.
Thanks Bookbox, though I do know that they were available as an online order (at a cost) at least up till a few years ago as I spent a chunk of the kids inheritance on a couple. I have altered my post
Boo
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Augustus Tomlins 39, transcribed as Lomlins.
Living in Woolwich in 1851.A different address
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1841 England Census for William Thurling b 1791 Kent.
Living at Charlotte Place
Kent
Charlton Next Woolwich
Woolwich Dockyard
District 4
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words in red are those I am unsure of
In the Name of God Amen
I Sarah Goldsmith of Charlotte Place in the Parish of Woolwich in the
county of Kent Widow being of sound mind but aware of the uncertainty of
human life do make and ordain this my last will and testament and first I
commit my soul unto God through the merits of my conduct My worldly
goods I dispose of as follows I bequeath unto William Goldsmith
the sum of 5 pounds sterling To my daughter Celia Goldsmith I bequeath
the two silver tablespoons My freehold house situated in New Street in
the parish of St Nicholas Deptford I direct to be sold to meet the
expenses of administration and funeral and to pay my just debts To my
sons Charles Goldsmith and Thomas Goldsmith I bequeath my leashold
house situated at No 13 in Adams place in the parish of Woolwich jointly and
now in the occupation of Mr Augustus [***lin] To my son George Goldsmith
and to my daughter Sarah Ann Goldsmith I bequeath my dwelling house
situated in Charlotte Place jointly and to my daughter Sarah Ann I [****]
bequeath all my household furniture linen and the residue of my plate My
leashold house situated at No14 Adams place and now in the occupation
of my son William aforesaid I direct to be sold and the residue
of the proceeds after my debts are paid to be equally divided between the
whole of my children who may be living at the time of my decease and I
herby nominate and appoint Mr William Stuart of Mulgrave place in the
parish of Woolwich and Mr WIlliam [?_ling?] of Charlotte place to be
my Executors Sarah Goldsmith X her mark signed sealed
and delivered this 18 day of December 1840 in the presence of Henry [?Roberts?]
John Richards Thomas Richardson
Boo
Oh wow thank you so much, this is very helpful and I can actually make out more of the words now in the text. I guess I have to get used to this writing. Sounds like this family were relatively well off. Although not sure what happened to all the money certainly didn't make it down my branch of the family through her son Charles.
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apologies for the multiple posts but I can only take things in baby steps or I get confused :-)
That index record for admin gives a volume and folio number
I haven't seen an admin abstract so have no idea what info they contain but have a couple of will abstracts which did help my research. These are inland Revenue records so may give an idea of what his estate was valued at and how much the death duties were.
Family Search have digitised these but because of contractual restrictions they are only viewable at a Family History Centre or an affiliate library EDIT can also be viewed at NA as that is an affiliate library
If you have one near you they will let you search and view on their computers and allow you to either download or print the image.
to find your nearest FHC look here:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/522838?availability=Family%20History%20Library
do ring before you visit to be sure they are still open (our nearest is no longer in operation as they didn't have enough volunteers)
go there, using the info from the index image on the NA. - year 1828, vol 1 folio 11
scroll down till you see the entry for
Administration abstracts, A-Z, 1828 (p. 1-230, Jan.-Apr.). film 1817904 image group number 8220572
and from there you should be able to find the record on folio 11
The originals are at the NA and can be ( EDIT ordered to view advance of when you plan to visit see reply from Bookbox) ordered online but there will be a cost to that £8.40 for them to look for it and see if its suitable to be copied at which stage they send you a quote to actually copy it which will be at least that amount again
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3339375
Boo
Thank you very much for this information. I am in Australia so can't visit the National Archives. But I will look into the copying option if I need it.