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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: oldtimer on Friday 04 October 24 16:38 BST (UK)

Title: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 04 October 24 16:38 BST (UK)
Hi friends,

My cousin has sent me this scan of a photograph of a lady whom she believes to be a member of our Griffin family, but she isn't sure which one.

If it could be dated, I think that would help us narrow down the options.  Also we would appreciate your ideas on her age.

My cousin isn't very computer savvy, and this is the best scan she could do   :-[, but if anyone would like to practise their restoration and colouring skills on it, please feel free!

Thanks for looking

Judy ;)
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 04 October 24 21:10 BST (UK)
Do you know more about the photographer?
Is that address in Birmingham? If not, where?
Is there another word before Portrait?


Studio set up there in 1891

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/963c9b9c-8aca-4541-9d64-726d951286be


But perhaps gone by 1892?

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/574beaa5-121c-43b2-82ee-5553c0168a0e


In 1895 James Lind Murray is in directory for Holland St Parade.  It is possible he would use up card stock while at a new address
So I am going with 1891-1893 ish
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 04 October 24 21:27 BST (UK)
Hi,

Yes, it was taken in Birmingham.

If it was taken in 1891 it is much later than we were thinking,  So that eliminates two of our candidates.

Thanks for your input - much appreciated  ;)
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 04 October 24 21:32 BST (UK)
There are some expert fashion daters on here. Hopefully one of them will be on soon.
I am a bit worried the sleeves of her jacket are too fitted.  But perhaps it’s the angle.
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 04 October 24 21:38 BST (UK)
James Lind Murray, photographer , was in Filey in 1881 census, and died in Birmingham in 1900
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 04 October 24 21:41 BST (UK)
Oh, well done.  Looks like your original guesstimate was correct.

Thankyou very much  :)
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: Gadget on Friday 04 October 24 21:53 BST (UK)
The nearest that I can find in my books is mid 1880s: 1883-1886 - shortish jacket, bustle type....


Gadget 
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 04 October 24 21:57 BST (UK)
Thank you Gadget.  ;)
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: Gadget on Friday 04 October 24 22:01 BST (UK)
Not sure that it can be into the 1890s - sleeves especially and card stock.

e.g.

https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~victorianphotographs/history/date/a1890.htm

https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~victorianphotographs/history/date/a1892.htm
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: skippy2 on Friday 04 October 24 23:04 BST (UK)
Hi Judy,

Clean up and tone change.

Cheers,

Skippy
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: RJ137 on Saturday 05 October 24 05:47 BST (UK)
My Try- a little colour to give some life
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: oldtimer on Saturday 05 October 24 08:54 BST (UK)
Hi Judy,

Clean up and tone change.

Cheers,

Skippy

Thank you Skippy - that is beautiful   :D
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: oldtimer on Saturday 05 October 24 08:56 BST (UK)
My Try- a little colour to give some life

Thank you RJ! A lovely transformation  :D
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: oldtimer on Saturday 05 October 24 09:07 BST (UK)
Not sure that it can be into the 1890s - sleeves especially and card stock.

e.g.

https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~victorianphotographs/history/date/a1890.htm

https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~victorianphotographs/history/date/a1892.htm

Thank you Gadget.  Looking at the examples you have given, the fashion style seemed much different by the 1890s. 
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 05 October 24 09:14 BST (UK)
Yes - definitely very different in the 1890s - the age of the Big Sleeve !1  They grew larger by mid-decade.

Is it possible to get your cousin to scan the back, if there's anything on it?

the site that I referenced is good for quick examples.

Add - looking at the card stock, it could be earlier than I said originally.
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: JenB on Saturday 05 October 24 10:51 BST (UK)
Hi Judy and Judy  :)

I'm no expert, but my Jayne Shrimpton book says

Between 1885 and 1888/9 the bustle projection was a prominent feature and could be very pronounced jutting out sharply behind the waist, the front of the skirt usually layered and the upper fabric draped apron style over a pleated or plain under skirt.
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 05 October 24 10:55 BST (UK)
I saw that, Jennifer, but wondered about the card stock so put it more mid-decade. 

It's certainly not 1890s.
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: jim1 on Saturday 05 October 24 12:37 BST (UK)
I would agree no later than 1890.
I have Henry Mower at 124 Digbeth from at least 1888.
Courtesy of Brett Payne:
 directories suggest that he had another studio at 124 Digbeth, Birmingham, Warwickshire from 1886 to 1893,
As for her age I would suggest around 30.
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: oldtimer on Saturday 05 October 24 15:04 BST (UK)

I'm no expert, but my Jayne Shrimpton book says

Between 1885 and 1888/9 the bustle projection was a prominent feature and could be very pronounced jutting out sharply behind the waist, the front of the skirt usually layered and the upper fabric draped apron style over a pleated or plain under skirt.
 

Thank you Jennifer.  The description you have posted sounds very much like the outfit the lady is wearing. All I can say is that it looks a pretty uncomfortable get-up!

Thanks for your help and interest!

Judy


Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: oldtimer on Saturday 05 October 24 15:19 BST (UK)
I would agree no later than 1890.
I have Henry Mower at 124 Digbeth from at least 1888.
Courtesy of Brett Payne:
 directories suggest that he had another studio at 124 Digbeth, Birmingham, Warwickshire from 1886 to 1893,
As for her age I would suggest around 30.

Thank you Jim. 

I was guessing her age at late 30s, early 40s.

The second studio at Digbeth with those dates is really interesting.

 With the help of everyone who has contributed to this thread I am going to plump for it being taken around 1886.

Thanks to all of you who have helped me come to that conclusion!

Judy

Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: skippy2 on Saturday 05 October 24 15:30 BST (UK)
Hi Judy,

Colour version.

Cheers, Skippy
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: oldtimer on Saturday 05 October 24 16:13 BST (UK)
Thank you Skippy - that's lovely!  :D
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: Treetotal on Sunday 06 October 24 13:10 BST (UK)
What a lovely photos Judy....This is interesting, I remember the hat style "....

https://www.hhhistory.com/2014/02/oh-those-victorian-hats-three-stories.html#:~:text=three%20stories%20and%20a%20basement%20If%20you%20want


3 Stories and a Basement been mentioned by Jim on here years ago.
Carol
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: Treetotal on Sunday 06 October 24 13:43 BST (UK)
Hi Judy, Nice to see you on the board. here is my clean up of your lovely photo.
Carol  :D
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: oldtimer on Sunday 06 October 24 14:40 BST (UK)
What a lovely photos Judy....This is interesting, I remember the hat style "....

https://www.hhhistory.com/2014/02/oh-those-victorian-hats-three-stories.html#:~:text=three%20stories%20and%20a%20basement%20If%20you%20want



Hello Carol  :D

Thank you for this interesting link.  How on earth did they manage to wear those hats?   ??? This one looks like an upturned flower pot. :o

Thank you too for the beautiful restore.   It's lovely.

Judy  ;)
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: Treetotal on Sunday 06 October 24 14:50 BST (UK)
Pleased that you like it...she doesn't want to be coloured though, very resistant  ;)
Carol
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: Treetotal on Sunday 06 October 24 14:55 BST (UK)
Here you go Judy.
Carol
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: oldtimer on Sunday 06 October 24 14:56 BST (UK)
Pleased that you like it...she doesn't want to be coloured though, very resistant  ;)
Carol

 ;D ;D

She knows she is lovely as she is  :D
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: oldtimer on Sunday 06 October 24 14:57 BST (UK)
We crossed Carol!

Oh my gosh, that is beautiful.  Thank you :D

Judy
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: Treetotal on Sunday 06 October 24 15:00 BST (UK)
I think she needs a slap across the cheeks though.  ;D ;D ;D I'm glad you like as I haven't done one for ages so am a bit rusty.
Carol
Title: Re: Griffin Mystery lady for dating please
Post by: oldtimer on Sunday 06 October 24 15:30 BST (UK)
Oh, don't do that!  Might knock her hat off!!  ;D

If you are rusty Carol, it certainly doesn't show!

Judy  :)