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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Banffshire => Topic started by: carolapple on Wednesday 02 October 24 22:53 BST (UK)
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Hello
I have the attached Birth Reg from Scotlands People for Annie Guthrie MURRAY, registered in Parish of Fordyce.
I think I'm reading her place of birth correctly as Drums of Muirake. But I'm drawing a blank trying to find such a place on google or ScotlandsPeople.
Can anyone with local knowledge help?
Can anyone explain what "Drums of" usually means?
Also "Greens of" ? (I have a family showing at Greens of Burgie near Forres, I can find a place called Burgie)
Many thanks for any help you can give
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Drums of Muirake (Parish of Fordyce)
A number of Scattered Cottage farm houses, with Small gardens, and Crofts of arable land attached: on the north-east Spur of the Knock Hill, the property of The Earl of Seafield.
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/banffshire-os-name-books-1867-1869/banffshire-volume-12/101
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Hello Neale
Thank you very much, that's very helpful.
Can you give me any pointers on searching for this on ScotlandsPeople? I still get "no results" when I try "muirake", but I can get to what you found if I only do "drums" and then scroll through all the texts it's found in. Puzzling
Thanks again
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https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.9&lat=57.59918&lon=-2.76081&layers=6&b=ESRIWorld&o=100
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You would search on Scotlandsplaces.
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk
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Sorry Neale - word substitution, yes ScotlandsPlaces.
Thanks GR2 that's a really helpful map
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From the home page of Scotlands Places
Top right of page Enter Search term. Type in - "Drums of Muirake"
This gives you Banffshire OS Name Book
Click on this and you get 2 entries where the Drums of Muirake are mentioned
Click on each – scrolling down the page will give you a transcription.
Click on maps at very bottom of page
This entry mentions the surname Murray – not sure if it is related to your family
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/banffshire-os-name-books-1867-1869/banffshire-volume-25/19
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Thank you Neale for writing detailed instructions.
I still get no results even when doing/pasting exactly what you say.
I'm starting to wonder if there's a tech/connection issue, as I'm sometimes getting "timed out" errors, sometimes too quickly, but only for ScotlandsPlaces, not for other websites I'm on. I'll try again another day (night)
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'Druim' is the Gaelic for 'ridge', and it often crops up as 'Drum' in place names.
'Greens' is a bit more difficult. It might be from Gaelic 'grian' meaning 'sun', or 'graine' meaning 'sand'. Or it might just be English 'green' as in the colour of grass.
Looks as if Greens of Burgie was not recorded when the Ordnance Survey drew up the Name Books in the mid-19th century so perhaps it had disappeared or been renamed.
Google is useless for finding small places like a single croft or house or a couple of cottages, especially those that do not exist any more. See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=758930.0
PS The Murray mentioned in the listing in Scotland's Places is 'Mr Murray, Banker'. When the OS were drawing up the Name Books, they asked prominent local people, like the landowners, minister, schoolmaster and so on, how places in the locality were pronounced, spelled and written. 'Mr Murray' was almost certainly Peter Murray in the town of Portsoy, who is in the 1861 census aged 49, born in the parish of Fordyce. Looks as if he may have died in Portsoy in 1886, mother's maiden surname Brodie.
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Hi Forfarian
Your info on Drums and Greens is really helpful. In the case of Drums of Muirake it's described as on a spur of Knock Hil - that fits perfectly.
The colour green may be the most likely for Greens of Burgie explanation, as the Burgie vicinity is not right on the coast, it's a north facing area gently sloping up to a minor ridge/hill (Califer Hill). The location crops up on a gravestone, 1856 "John Murray late Farmer, Greens of Burgie". His death certificate has place of death as "Hill of Burgie". Perhaps I'll try study the census enumerator's sequence and see if I can glean any clues from the adjacent households he visited.
Thanks for explaining who the Mr Murray, Banker is likely to be, and how those notes occurred. Murray being a very common name in these parts. I will look closer just in case there's a family connection.
Thanks everyone for all your help, I'm learning so much!
Carol
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Got it! I've now had time to take a look at the maps and census for Greens of Burgie.
See https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.2&lat=57.59499&lon=-3.52682&layers=6&b=ESRIWorld&o=100
and
https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ0857 - so it's still there.
On the First Edition of the Ordnance Survey six-inch map it's one of a number of places mapped as Burgiehill, but on the Second Edition it is specifically named as Greens of Burgie.
There is some information about it at https://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu%2Easp, in particular confirming that it is or was part of Burgie Estate.
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Hi Forfarian
That's brilliant! It's a great feeling to "find" the place. And I was so close - almost exactly 2 years ago I had a few days in the Forres area. I had a drive around and paused at Califer Hill viewpoint. Only 500m short.
Greens of Burgie was home to my great-great-great grandparents.
A learning curve. I was clearly incorrect in thinking that if a place was named on those old maps, it would be searchable in ScotlandsPlaces.
Libindx is always worth a look too, thanks for reminding me. Sometimes some gems there. I'll look at the newspaper item in particular
Thanks very very much :)
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A learning curve. I was clearly incorrect in thinking that if a place was named on those old maps, it would be searchable in ScotlandsPlaces.
Unfortunately that doesn't always work :(
Not that it's always obvious why not. Greens of Burgie is enumerated in the 1841 and 1861 census, but not in 1851, when it is probably included in Burgiehill or Hill of Burgie. The Name Books were compiled in the middle of the 19th century, after the 1841 census, so it's hard to understand why Greens of Burgie wouldn't have been recorded in the 1850s or 1860s.
The other thing about Scotlandsplaces is that you can't use wildcards or fuzzy matching to pick up different spellings of a place name, which means that you may not find the less obvious variants. Though I don't this would have affected finding Greens of Burgie.
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Thank you. So helpful to understand :)