RootsChat.Com

Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: knights on Wednesday 02 October 24 08:58 BST (UK)

Title: What is their correct age?
Post by: knights on Wednesday 02 October 24 08:58 BST (UK)
In 1891 I have this couple, Thomas and Alice Holmes both aged 20 living in Stanley, Co Durham, they seem to be fair ground people. 

In 1901 they have both aged over 20 years and not the usual 10.

I can't seem to go back or forward from these 2 censuses. 

Any help would be appreciated.

Thankyou.

Wendy
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 02 October 24 10:01 BST (UK)
Could you please give both 1891 & 1901 census ref. Thanks

SS
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: knights on Wednesday 02 October 24 10:05 BST (UK)
1891 RG12/4206

1901 RG 13/4665

Wendy
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 02 October 24 10:29 BST (UK)
1891 RG12/4206

1901 RG 13/4665

Wendy

You've given us the Class and Piece No.
Can you supply the Folio No and Page No, for a full reference?
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 02 October 24 10:39 BST (UK)
They are in Newcastle, both aged 22

Folio 17 Page 30 187
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: JenB on Wednesday 02 October 24 10:41 BST (UK)
1891 RG12/4206

This piece number covers part of Newcastle upon Tyne, not Stanley Co. Durham.

There are a Robert Thomas and Alice Holme both aged 22 there 1891, he is a 'traveller in a shooting gallery' is this the couple you refer to?
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: knights on Wednesday 02 October 24 10:45 BST (UK)
I'm sorry for the confusion.

Yes traveller in a shooting gallery but the name is Thomas not Robert.

Wendy
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: JenB on Wednesday 02 October 24 10:47 BST (UK)
My mistake, (Thomas not Robert)  :-[

They are in Stanley in 1901, not 1891.

Their ages originally entered as NK (not known) then subsequently altered to 44 and 42.
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: Comberton on Wednesday 02 October 24 10:49 BST (UK)
1891 Thomas Holme 1869 
4206/17/30
1901 Thomas Holmes 1857
4665/27/46
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 02 October 24 10:51 BST (UK)
Probably their marriage, the certificate might show their actual ages.

Marriages Mar 1889

HOLMES    Thomas       
Maguire    Peter        
SMITH    Alice Hannah        
Thompson    Ann

Gateshead    10a   1031

Debra  :)
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 02 October 24 12:04 BST (UK)
In 1891, There is an Elizabeth Smith age 15 with the family (Alice's sister)
This could be the Smith family in 1881

Piece number 4149, Folio 130, Page 33
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 02 October 24 12:21 BST (UK)
There's a death registration for an Alice Hannah Holmes in Durham district Q4 1908 age 38. if the right one she would be born abt 1870, so age in 1891 would be closer.
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: knights on Wednesday 02 October 24 12:26 BST (UK)
Thank you both.

Wendy
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 02 October 24 12:28 BST (UK)
They were Catholic, a few of the baptisms....

Alfred  1893
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JWQN-1S4

Elizabeth  1896
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JS1X-V32

Mary Ann  1903
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L96W-K9G3

James  1905
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-996W-K927

Debra  :)
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 02 October 24 12:29 BST (UK)
In 1891, There is an Elizabeth Smith age 15 with the family (Alice's sister)
This could be the Smith family in 1881

Piece number 4149, Folio 130, Page 33

Forget this one. This is the family of Henry Smith and Mary Ann nee Spencer married 1871. This Alice has middle name Jane not Hannah
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: knights on Wednesday 02 October 24 12:40 BST (UK)
The baptisms help as their ages are also shown as unknown in 1901.

Thankyou.
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 02 October 24 12:50 BST (UK)
The baptisms help as their ages are also shown as unknown in 1901.

Thankyou.

And also Thomas and Alice were originally shown as age "NK", then a figure was added in another hand. I would be more suspicious of the 1901 than the 1891.
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: knights on Wednesday 02 October 24 12:53 BST (UK)
I was sort of leaning to that one myself.

Wendy
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: janan on Wednesday 02 October 24 13:03 BST (UK)
There is this possible death for Thomas Holmes (but there are quite few born c1870 in the area)

Age 35 Mar 1905  Chester Le Street 10a 34

Find  a Grave has this Thomas buried in Ropery Lane Cemetery Chester Le Street
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 02 October 24 13:09 BST (UK)
There are three Thomas Holmes births registered in Leeds in 1869
mother's maiden name March, Stafford and Wagstaff.

Middle of the three is son of Owen Holmes and Catherine Stafford. Catherine was born in Ireland (her younger siblings born in Leeds) and Owen's parents were from Ireland. That might give the Catholic connection.
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: knights on Wednesday 02 October 24 13:15 BST (UK)
Will follow these up.  Thank you so much.
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 02 October 24 13:18 BST (UK)
If the two deaths found so far for Thomas and Alice are correct, then all the children would be orphans in 1911, can anyone find them on the census?
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: knights on Wednesday 02 October 24 13:23 BST (UK)
I do have Mathew (mathias) as he is my direct ancestor, he was born in 1891.

He is a miner and is a lodger in 1911.

Wendy
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 02 October 24 13:23 BST (UK)
There's a funeral notice in a Newcastle paper for Thomas, mentions husband of Alice and he was a showman, so Thomas's is the correct death

16 Mar 1905 Newcastle evening Chronicle
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: knights on Wednesday 02 October 24 13:25 BST (UK)
Thank you so much.

Wendy
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: JenB on Wednesday 02 October 24 13:41 BST (UK)


If the two deaths found so far for Thomas and Alice are correct, then all the children would be orphans in 1911, can anyone find them on the census?

In 1911 there is an 11 year old John Holmes born in Gateshead, living in Tredegar with his uncle Alfred Smith born in Lancashire and who has a ‘cocoa nut shie’. Fairground connection?
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: knights on Wednesday 02 October 24 13:43 BST (UK)
Interesting.

Thankyou.
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 02 October 24 13:54 BST (UK)


If the two deaths found so far for Thomas and Alice are correct, then all the children would be orphans in 1911, can anyone find them on the census?

In 1911 there is an 11 year old John Holmes born in Gateshead, living in Tredegar with his uncle Alfred Smith born in Lancashire and who has a ‘cocoa nut shie’. Fairground connection?

The Enumerator's list reads
Address - Recreation Ground, Kind of Building - Travelling Van
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: janan on Wednesday 02 October 24 14:09 BST (UK)
In 1911 there is a 6 yr old James Holms born Chester Le Street listed as Visitor in household of Edward and Lizzie Middleton living Chester Le Street
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: knights on Wednesday 02 October 24 14:11 BST (UK)
Will take a look.

Thanks
Title: Re: What is their correct age?
Post by: JenB on Wednesday 02 October 24 14:13 BST (UK)


If the two deaths found so far for Thomas and Alice are correct, then all the children would be orphans in 1911, can anyone find them on the census?

In 1911 there is an 11 year old John Holmes born in Gateshead, living in Tredegar with his uncle Alfred Smith born in Lancashire and who has a ‘cocoa nut shie’. Fairground connection?

The Enumerator's list reads
Address - Recreation Ground, Kind of Building - Travelling Van

Yes, I realise that.

I didn’t phrase my answer very well.

I meant to say was there a fairground connection between Alfred Smith and the Holmes/Smith family?