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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: knights on Wednesday 02 October 24 08:58 BST (UK)
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In 1891 I have this couple, Thomas and Alice Holmes both aged 20 living in Stanley, Co Durham, they seem to be fair ground people.
In 1901 they have both aged over 20 years and not the usual 10.
I can't seem to go back or forward from these 2 censuses.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thankyou.
Wendy
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Could you please give both 1891 & 1901 census ref. Thanks
SS
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1891 RG12/4206
1901 RG 13/4665
Wendy
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1891 RG12/4206
1901 RG 13/4665
Wendy
You've given us the Class and Piece No.
Can you supply the Folio No and Page No, for a full reference?
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They are in Newcastle, both aged 22
Folio 17 Page 30 187
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1891 RG12/4206
This piece number covers part of Newcastle upon Tyne, not Stanley Co. Durham.
There are a Robert Thomas and Alice Holme both aged 22 there 1891, he is a 'traveller in a shooting gallery' is this the couple you refer to?
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I'm sorry for the confusion.
Yes traveller in a shooting gallery but the name is Thomas not Robert.
Wendy
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My mistake, (Thomas not Robert) :-[
They are in Stanley in 1901, not 1891.
Their ages originally entered as NK (not known) then subsequently altered to 44 and 42.
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1891 Thomas Holme 1869
4206/17/30
1901 Thomas Holmes 1857
4665/27/46
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Probably their marriage, the certificate might show their actual ages.
Marriages Mar 1889
HOLMES Thomas
Maguire Peter
SMITH Alice Hannah
Thompson Ann
Gateshead 10a 1031
Debra :)
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In 1891, There is an Elizabeth Smith age 15 with the family (Alice's sister)
This could be the Smith family in 1881
Piece number 4149, Folio 130, Page 33
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There's a death registration for an Alice Hannah Holmes in Durham district Q4 1908 age 38. if the right one she would be born abt 1870, so age in 1891 would be closer.
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Thank you both.
Wendy
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They were Catholic, a few of the baptisms....
Alfred 1893
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JWQN-1S4
Elizabeth 1896
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JS1X-V32
Mary Ann 1903
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L96W-K9G3
James 1905
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-996W-K927
Debra :)
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In 1891, There is an Elizabeth Smith age 15 with the family (Alice's sister)
This could be the Smith family in 1881
Piece number 4149, Folio 130, Page 33
Forget this one. This is the family of Henry Smith and Mary Ann nee Spencer married 1871. This Alice has middle name Jane not Hannah
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The baptisms help as their ages are also shown as unknown in 1901.
Thankyou.
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The baptisms help as their ages are also shown as unknown in 1901.
Thankyou.
And also Thomas and Alice were originally shown as age "NK", then a figure was added in another hand. I would be more suspicious of the 1901 than the 1891.
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I was sort of leaning to that one myself.
Wendy
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There is this possible death for Thomas Holmes (but there are quite few born c1870 in the area)
Age 35 Mar 1905 Chester Le Street 10a 34
Find a Grave has this Thomas buried in Ropery Lane Cemetery Chester Le Street
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There are three Thomas Holmes births registered in Leeds in 1869
mother's maiden name March, Stafford and Wagstaff.
Middle of the three is son of Owen Holmes and Catherine Stafford. Catherine was born in Ireland (her younger siblings born in Leeds) and Owen's parents were from Ireland. That might give the Catholic connection.
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Will follow these up. Thank you so much.
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If the two deaths found so far for Thomas and Alice are correct, then all the children would be orphans in 1911, can anyone find them on the census?
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I do have Mathew (mathias) as he is my direct ancestor, he was born in 1891.
He is a miner and is a lodger in 1911.
Wendy
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There's a funeral notice in a Newcastle paper for Thomas, mentions husband of Alice and he was a showman, so Thomas's is the correct death
16 Mar 1905 Newcastle evening Chronicle
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Thank you so much.
Wendy
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If the two deaths found so far for Thomas and Alice are correct, then all the children would be orphans in 1911, can anyone find them on the census?
In 1911 there is an 11 year old John Holmes born in Gateshead, living in Tredegar with his uncle Alfred Smith born in Lancashire and who has a ‘cocoa nut shie’. Fairground connection?
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Interesting.
Thankyou.
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If the two deaths found so far for Thomas and Alice are correct, then all the children would be orphans in 1911, can anyone find them on the census?
In 1911 there is an 11 year old John Holmes born in Gateshead, living in Tredegar with his uncle Alfred Smith born in Lancashire and who has a ‘cocoa nut shie’. Fairground connection?
The Enumerator's list reads
Address - Recreation Ground, Kind of Building - Travelling Van
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In 1911 there is a 6 yr old James Holms born Chester Le Street listed as Visitor in household of Edward and Lizzie Middleton living Chester Le Street
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Will take a look.
Thanks
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If the two deaths found so far for Thomas and Alice are correct, then all the children would be orphans in 1911, can anyone find them on the census?
In 1911 there is an 11 year old John Holmes born in Gateshead, living in Tredegar with his uncle Alfred Smith born in Lancashire and who has a ‘cocoa nut shie’. Fairground connection?
The Enumerator's list reads
Address - Recreation Ground, Kind of Building - Travelling Van
Yes, I realise that.
I didn’t phrase my answer very well.
I meant to say was there a fairground connection between Alfred Smith and the Holmes/Smith family?