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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: stevelord65 on Sunday 29 September 24 04:35 BST (UK)
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Hi, and thanks in advance for any help or advice
I've located my great great grandfather and his wife in Portsmouth, England in the 1861 census: John Lloyd (aged 30, from Ambleston in Pembrokeshire) and Henrietta, maiden name Hopkins (aged 24, from Bristol). However despite searching all the way back to 1850 and trying different spellings I can't find a marriage for them. Is it possible that some marriages just weren't recorded in the civil registration system?
Steve, New Zealand
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Maybe they didnt marry until 1868 :)
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Here is the marriage record
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NFB6-6D3
John Lloyd had a previous marriage.
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Henrietta and children in 1871 in Liverpool;
Etta Lloyd 51 Head Mar born Bristol, Gloucestershire IMAGE is age 31***
H A Lloyd 9 Daughter born Hampshire
John Lloyd 7 Son born Liverpool
Anna E Waterson 22 Servant
LLOYD, HENRIETTA AGNES mmn HOPKINS**
GRO Reference: 1862 M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 378
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1881 Census
John Lloyd 50 Lodger Mar Dealer In Paintings born
Alice Lloyd 23 Lodger Unm Dealer In Paintings born Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Henrietta A. Lloyd 19 Lodger born Portsmouth, Hampshire
Cant see Alice in 1871 Census.
But likely child from 1st Marriage??
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Could any of these be the Alice from 1871 census - so John's first wife surname Bayley, ,Thomas, Veal or Bywater?
LLOYD, ALICE BAYLEY
GRO Reference: 1857 M Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 475
LLOYD, ALICE THOMAS
GRO Reference: 1858 S Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 438
LLOYD, ALICE VEAL
GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 442
LLOYD, ALICE MARY BYWATER
GRO Reference: 1859 M Quarter in WOLVER/HAMPTON Volume 06B Page 508
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To take out one birth...
Alice mmn Thomas.
Ann Thomas married Francis Lloyd in Wolverhampton in 1850.
Tazzie
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And this one
Alice mmn Veal
Leonard Lloyd married Ann Maria Veal in Wolverhampton in 1855
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OK good finds, the MMN Bywater birth may be a little late.
ADDED: baptism Alice Mary Lloyd 1859
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NBN6-3LY
parents RIchard & Bertha
Marriages Sep 1857
Bywater Bertha Lichfield 6b 439
Lloyd Richard Lichfield 6b 439
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Thanks for all your replies. John & Henrietta show as married in the 1861 census, and on their daughter's 1862 birth certificate, Henrietta puts her surname as "Lloyd formerly Hopkins", but I suppose they must have just been pretending to be married the whole time? Was that sort of thing common in the 19th century?
By the way, John got married again in 1876, to an Alice Wolverson: I'm pretty sure this is the Alice in the 1881 census (the ages match up)
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Just to add to that last post, Henrietta died in 1874 leaving John a widower for 2 years before marrying again. After pretending to be married to each other for what must have been 7 years at least, he was only "officially" married to Henrietta for 6. Am guessing they couldn't have got married until 1868 because John's first wife was still alive - not sure how I can trace this first wife but will see what I can do
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EDIT: Please ignore this post - it's way off the mark ::), as admitted in my next post on this thread (reply#13 - how appropriate!).
Hello there stevelord65,
I'm wondering if you've seen this? Could the John Lloyd, draper, in this record - with wife Maria - be your John Lloyd? (Was John's first wife called Maria?)
https://www.liverpoolmaritime.org/PersonRecordIDSearch.php?Record_Of_Origin=BAPT287158&Relationship=Baptised (https://www.liverpoolmaritime.org/PersonRecordIDSearch.php?Record_Of_Origin=BAPT287158&Relationship=Baptised)
I've also posted some (possibly relevant) info to your other ("Lloyd and Co") thread.
Good luck,
theirchild
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Well found but according to the marriage licence on Ancestry dated 12 Aug 1828 a John Lloyd, Draper, was a widower of Preston aged 34 when he married Maria Tate aged 21 a spinster. This is probably the parents in the baptism found by theirchild. So this John was born ca 1790 cannot be the John Lloyd in question as he was born ca 1830.
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Reply #12 by Josey: "...the John Lloyd in question...was born ca 1830."
Oops!!! I missed that extremely vital fact! Makes me look like one of those people with impossible-to-be-true family trees!!! (Children born before their parents/born to deceased parents, and so on.)
:-[ :-[ :-[
Thanks for pointing it out, Josey but I really wouldn't call my contribution "well found" - the word "dunce" seems more appropriate for me on this occasion. I've been awake all night, struggling with my laptop which is on its last legs, and I evidently wasn't as alert as I thought when reading the thread.
So please accept my sincere apologies, stevelord65, Josey and everyone else...and do, please ignore my reply #11. ;)
In view of Josey's helpful revelation (well, it was a revelation to me!) I've just edited (after several attempts because my laptop keeps crashing) some of the info I posted to stevelord65's other thread, re. Lloyd and Co...mainly, a now-obviously-duff bit about an 1840 bankruptcy - because I've not heard of many 9-10 year old children going bankrupt!!! ;D ;D ;D
theirchild
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No apology necessary theirchild - we are REALLY polite on rootschat ;D so I tried to put the age thing tactfully!.
Hope you get your laptop sorted.
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Thanks, Josey - yes, you definitely put it in the most polite and tactful way possible.
My laptop is non-salvageable, unfortunately. The memory (RAM) has become faulty and the test that I ran said it needs replacing - but since the laptop's old, a bit tatty and the OS is the now-unsupported Windows 8.1, replacing the RAM would be uneconomic. My OH has gone to John Lewis this afternoon* to buy a new one that I've chosen (or order one if it's out of stock by the time OH gets there - the website said the store only had one in stock).
* I'm housebound so can't go myself.
Thanks again, :)
theirchild
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Thanks for your reply theirchild, and don't worry :) I make mistakes like that all the time !
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Yes having children before marrying was more common than we would think in the 1800's :)