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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: fisherj on Friday 27 September 24 09:57 BST (UK)
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Records for Joseph Gallagher 2nd Air Mechanic RFC/3rd Air Mechanic RAF Service no 89314 state:
28.07.1917 He enlisted - 65 Sq
07.12.1917 - 22.04.1918 France (I understand the squadron moved to France)
22.04.1918 transfer to RD (Is this a Recruitment Depot?)
06.07.1918 25 TS (I assume this is the Training School in Thetford?)
01.09.1918 43 Stn
11.12.1919 (Discharged on health grounds - "Myalgia from trench fever")
Is there any way I can find out where in the UK he enlisted? I have what scant information is available from Fold3. Should I be looking for some code to clarify this?
I think 43 Stn was a casualty clearing station but information on line (Long long trail) states this was located overseas - which does not seem to make sense if he transferred there from Scotland.
I would like to find out where 43 Stn was.
Also - whether I have misunderstood any of the above information.
But also - where would an air mechanic like Joseph learn the skills needed to be an air mechanic? Would he have had to have some relevant experience before being given this role?
Would he have joined the 65 Squadron immediately on enlistment? or completed training after enlistment, prior to being alloted a squadron??
I am guessing that he would be receiving further mechanical training at the 25 FS??
Many thanks
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From his record on FindMyPast. His wife was in Reading, so perhaps that is where he enlisted.
It also says he was a Barman.
What was his occupation in 1911?
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Ahh... that's the mystery I've been trying to solve for many years!
I have information on his wife, her ancestors and their child but Joseph remains a mystery.
We have no information on his family background or where he came from other than that on their marriage certificate - which includes his service number and occupation.
Joseph left the family around the time their daughter was born in 1919. His pension card has an address for him in Manchester in January 1920 where he is said to be single. We have no idea what happened to him.
The reason I am posting my query about locations on this forum is to try to understand his whereabouts - and what he was involved with - during his service career.
I find the abbreviations and initials on the service docs difficult to understand.
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What are the details for his father on the marriage?
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Whoops....sorry!
I omitted an entry from Joseph Gallagher's service record in my initial post.
07.12.1917 - 22.04.1918 France with 65 sq
22.04.1918 transfer to RD (which I think maybe Recruitment Depot?)
06.07.1918 25 FS (Luce Bay, Scotland?)
Apologies for not getting this chronology correct the first time!
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According to the marriage cert, Joseph's father was James Gallagher, journeyman carpenter, deceased
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What was the address in Manchester?
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Manchester address on pension record card:
18.01.1920 244 Brunswick St, Manchester
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Given the timing of it, I don't think RD stands for Recruitment Depot. I think Regimental Depot is more likely, but since he transferred there after the formation of the RAF on 1 April 1918, 'Regimental' is less likely to have been used since that was very much an Army term. On the other hand the RAF hadn't had time to create its own identity so might well have clung onto understandable terminology for a short period.
The usual abbreviation for Casualty Clearing Station is CCS, not Stn which could easily be confused with a railway station. While the RAF are now located on RAF Stations, I don't think this terminolgy was in use in 1918, for the same reasons as given above. I think 43 Stn is much more likely to be a mistranscription of 43 Sqn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._43_Squadron_RAF).
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It looks like “Stn” to me.
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Thanks for those comments Andy.
I've attached (I hope!) a screenshot of the relevant section showing JG's transfers. It does look like 43 Stn was written deliberately though I appreciate what you say - that these are referred to as CCS.
And just for me to be clear, you're saying that Regimental Depot is more likely. So on his return from France he was transferred to the RD but what would be the purpose of being in this section?
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OK, yes now I've seen the script it is clearly Stn. However I still don't believe that is a reference to a CCS. The events recorded are postings or attachments. A soldier (other than one in the RAMC) would not be posted or attached to a CCS, he would be admitted. Casualties were either on the strength of their parent unit, or posted the X list.
Usually a man would only remain in a CCS for a couple of days, and was either returned to his unit if relatively fit for service, or be moved back up the casualty chain to a field or general hospital where he could undergo surgery etc if that was appropriate. The sort of casualties who tended to remain longer in a CCS were those who were sick (STDs were a common ailment and in 1918 so was flu) and were already receiving the appropriate treatment (ie drugs, bed rest etc) for their condition, or all too frequently, were about to die and for whom nothing more could be done other than making them as comfortable as possible. CCSs frequently had large military cemeteries adjacent to them.
I don't know enough about the organisation, structure and terminology of the early RAF to offer a sensible alternative explanation for 43 Stn.
On the question RD, he went there immediately after being with 65 Sqn, which at this point in the war was an operational flying squadron (http://www.rafweb.org/Squadrons/Sqn061-65.htm) based in France. So it would not be logical for him to go a Recruiting Depot, but it is entirely plausible that he staged via a Regimental Depot (which is a kind of holding location) while waiting to attend a course at 25 TS (probably a Training Squadron). However I am happy to be corrected about Regimental Depot because it really doesn't fit that well within the newly formed RAF which of course had no regiments. Again I can't offer a better explanation for RD for the same reason given above.
There are two excellent books which might throw some light on all of this, if you can find a copy of one or both:
Rawlings, John D. R. (1969). Fighter Squadrons of the R.A,F. and their Aircraft. London: Macdonald & Co. (Publishers) Ltd.
Sturtivant, Ray; Hamlin, John; Halley, James J. (1997). Royal Air Force Training and Support Units. Tunbridge Wells, UK: Air-Britain (Historians) Ltd. ISBN 0-85130-252-1.
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Thanks for your comprehensive reply Andy. Much appreciate the time you've taken to put this together for me, an ignoramus in these matters!
The timescales for JG's service seem odd to me.
5 months presumably initial training before
4 months active service in France then
3 months in the Regimental depot then
2 months in the training school then
3 months in whatever 43 station was - before discharge on health grounds.
First of all, for less than a quarter of his total time in the forces he was on active service in France!
But also, if he was suffering from myalgia from trench fever so much that he was discharged, surely he would not have been well enough for anything after returning from France. He must have had some treatment somewhere if he was that poorly, surely??
I didn't realise that Air Mechanics would have been in the trenches.
Thanks too for the book recommendations.
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I didn't realise that Air Mechanics would have been in the trenches.
I've followed this thread because I have scant knowledge of RAF terminology &
was interested myself.
I thought I'd just butt in to offer an explanation.
Trench fever was a lice-borne infection & easily treated & lasted just a few days.
It was given the name because men in the front line were more prone to it.
Myalgia was a muscle condition often a symptom of another condition/disease.
If it says he was discharged due to myalgia it may be the underlying disease
hadn't been identified at the time.
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Thanks Jim
That's really helpful. I didn't realise that trench fever only lasted a relatively short time. (I've seen images on line of service men queuing for showers!)
Joseph was awarded 20% in pension re disability and it was unclear how much in the end his myalgia was due to trench fever.
Poor Joseph and poor all the other personnel in this dreadful war.
Many thanks
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I'm still trying to work out the "units" listed on Joseph Gallagher's service record (as per the image attached) - despite reading lots of info on line.
1. Could 25 TS be "25 Training squadron"? or "school"? Initially I thought this was "FS" because it is quite a florid script. And where would that be located? Was it part of the No 1 aviation schools in Reading?? or were they for pilots only? He must have met his wife, Elizabeth Mabley, a Reading resident somewhere. We don't think she was in the services and they met through being in the forces.
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2. "43 Stn". What and where could this be? He was discharged on health grounds after being there.
And just another thought.... about the date of his enrolment and the fact that his occupation was noted as a "bar man" and that he was single.
So... he appears to have signed up in July 1917 but wasn't there conscription for British men before then? unless of course you were exempt through certain family circumstances or occupations - and I don't think "bar man" was one of those!
If I am right about how conscription worked, then could it be that he is the RC "byre man" in Co Down, Ireland in 1911. A farm worker therefore exempt from conscription? But there's a problem with that I think because Ireland never sent its men to WW1. So why would he suddenly join??
I've been told that the "3" at the start of his record number on these forms indicates that he enlisted in the North West of England. There seem to be a lot of Gallaghers in Lancs!
Any help would be much appreciated.
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Are these any help?
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/the-evacuation-chain-for-wounded-and-sick-soldiers/
https://wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/hospitals/hospital.php?pid=12738
https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/291798-no43-casualty-clearing-station-beaulencourt/
http://www.vlib.us/medical/CCS/ccs.htm
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And this?
https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/119372-training-squadron-locations/
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I've been told that the "3" at the start of his record number on these forms indicates that he enlisted in the North West of England.
If you're referring to the Regional no. 3/A this is the office that dealt with pensions for that region.
In this case 3=North West (office at Duke St. Mancs.)
A=Airman.
25 TS was at Thetford Norfolk.
Following the Easter uprising in 1916 it was decided not to include Ireland in conscription.
This didn't prevent men from enlisting if they so chose.
So that just leaves 43 Stn.
The only suggestion I can offer is that there was a Training School based in Reading for pilot/observer training although I can find no reference to it being called 43 Stn.
It may be he was posted there in some sort of support role.
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Thanks for looking up and sharing these links Haliared - but I am afraid that the abbreviation for Casualty Clearing Station is "CCS" and not "Stn" - or so I am told.
I've also read many articles and posts e.g. on the Great War Forum about CCSs and never seen "Stn".
Also my guess is that whatever it stands for - it is located in England. Joseph Gallagher is there from 01.09.1918 to 11.12.1918.
Joseph and Elizabeth's daughter was born on 31.07.1919.
So unless we question Elizabeth's fidelity....??
(Haven't gone there yet.)
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Thanks Jim for your comments.
So... am I right in understanding then that the "prefix" 3/A refers to where he was claiming is pension from. And nothing at all to do (necessarily) with where he enlisted?
There are 2 other claim references - if that is what they are - on the pension index card. Both prefaced with 11. So I'm thinking that one of them might be because his address on discharge was 40 Southampton Street, Reading. The other might be because the card shows the records moved to London in March 1921.
Is there anything I should be looking for on the sparsely filled in documents that would indicate where he signed up?
Does the fact he joined the 65 Sq in Cambs on joining the RFC mean that he would have enlisted there?
But after 4 months in France and 2 months at RD - he was then at 25 TS in Norfolk.
(All this seems so disconnected to me - Cambs...Norfolk...Berks?!)
I have learned that on
20.12.1915 The No 1 School of Instruction was established at Reading, Berks which became
20.10.1916 The No 1 School of Military Aeronatics which became
01.04.1918 The No 1 School of Aeronautics and moved to Cheltenham on
26.10.1918.
There was also a School of Technical Training (Men) at Coley Park, Reading, Berks
An interesting quote I read on line:
"The CWS jam factory at Coley Park, Reading was taken over on 21.07.1916 to train 500 fitters and riggers in addition to 300 officers. Reading had previously been known as the School of Instruction." From the Ground up: A History of RAF Ground Crew by Fred Atkin
The RAF muster roll in 01.04.1918 classes Gallagher J 89314 as a "Fitter (Gen)" in both the RFC and the new formed RAF. Though he was downgraded from 2nd to 3rd Air Mechanic.
Now...if only I could work out what 43 Stn stands for and link it with the Training School in Reading.
Any observations would be gratefully received.
Many thanks for reading this complex long (probably repetitive) post.
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You won't find any reference as to where he joined only when.
As he was invalided out it's quite possible that after a bout of trench fever & myalgia
he was deemed unfit for overseas service & posted back to the UK & the Regt. Depot
where he was re-classified B/2 or 3 therefore fit for home service only.
Posted to 25 TS Norfolk & then on to 45 Stn. where his condition deteriorated & unable
to do his regular job downgraded to AM 3 then eventually discharged.
Conjecture of course but a common scenario for men sent back as unfit.
Doesn't get you any closer to identifying 43 Stn. but certainly an establishment
similar to Reading.
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Thanks again Jim - that's helpful.
Unfortunately I reckon this is going to remain one of life's mysteries - despite the many hours that I have put into trying to get answers.
In the meantime, it has been interesting and moving to read up about the service these man gave this country. I mean that sincerely.