RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: LaytonLily on Thursday 26 September 24 14:30 BST (UK)
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The folks on this website have been incredibly helpful, I'd say almost performed miracles, at finding FH details for me on a very complicated family. The Twists of Birmingham leading to the Aston family of Birmingham. So I am hopeful someone can perform another miracle again by finding Emma Aston born either 1813 or 1817 on the 1841 census. Trying to be succinct I give these details :
On 1851 census - Emma shown living as 'wife' with Joseph Twist in Birmingham. So named as Emma Twist. Being 34yrs. No place of birth recorded. On Joseph Twist's Will in 1883 proved to be his Housekeeper not his wife. Her two sons are living there - John 'Twist' aged 14yrs. William 'Twist' aged 12yrs. (plenty found out about William). Emma died in 1859 and her death certificate says Emma Aston aged 46yrs. As her son William changed his name to Aston in 1868 when he married Ann Dora Beard nee Tysall (he was committing bigamy) I am presuming Aston was her birth name and not a previous married name. I have not found her son John after the 1851 census.
I am having one last attempt at finding her, with John and William as Aston on 1841 census.
Anyone up for the challenge ! Many thanks.
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In 1841, the ages of people over 15 years old were rounded DOWN to the nearest 5 years.
There is an Emma Aston aged 20 (hence aged between 20 and 24) - in Ings St, St Thomas, Birmingham.
She is living in the same premises as a Nathaniel Collins and his wife -- so no help really. It may not be the correct Emma. No children with her.
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I will take a look into that - thank you. I have found various entries for Emma Aston but none that had John and William, they would be babies, so surely with her. Or maybe her mother - whoever that might be !
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I did look for the children in 1841, but couldn't find both of them together (in Warwickshire).
The fact that Emma hasn't shown a birthplace in 1851, makes me wonder if she didn't know where she was born.
There are a couple of possible baptisms for an Emma, in Birmingham around the right date - but we cannot be sure it is her of course.
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There is a possible birth registration, that may or may not be William. No mother name recorded. Digital download £3.00 on GRO. If him, may hold additional clue if another registered him, or area born.
ASTON, WILLIAM -
GRO Reference: 1838 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 337
Only a possible
Cas
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Good one Cas -- definitely worth getting that birth cert. as clues are thin on the ground!
It may not be him - but at the very worst it will 'eliminate him from enquiries'.
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Thank you for replies. Over the years, I have sent for any number of birth certificates for William Aston born about 1839, none with Emma as mother. But will check the details of the one mentioned. Have also looked on 1841 census for a John and William Aston, appropriate ages, living together, even without Emma, but nothing. I think I might just have to accept I will never find her family line. Same as I will never know my mothers maternal line back from her mother. As much as one might want the information, it just might never be found. But having achieved what seems like miracles, you still want more ! They do talk about the 'serendipity of FH research' so one lives in hope.
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Too much of a coincidence, so posting this...
Joseph, son of Joseph & Emma Twist
Born 3 May 1845
Baptised 1 January 1846
at St Martin, Birmingham
Abode: Worcester Street
Father's occ: Joiner
Possible death reg for him:
Joseph Twist
Mar qtr 1847
Aston vol 16 p191
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On Joseph Twist's Will in 1883 proved to be his Housekeeper not his wife.
Her two sons are living there - John 'Twist' aged 14yrs. William 'Twist' aged 12yrs. (plenty found out about William).
Emma died in 1859 and her death certificate says Emma Aston aged 46yrs.
I am presuming Aston was her birth name and not a previous married name.
Could her two children be living with family members in 1841?
Could she have named her first born John after her father :-\
There is this baptism
Emma Aston Birth 21 Mar 1816
Baptism 15 Apr 1816 St. Martins, Birmingham, Warwick
Father John, occ carpenter & joiner Mother Mary
Have you ruled out this Emma?
Hospital Street, Upper Court, St George, Birmingham, Warwickshire
Emma Twist 1813 Warwickshire occ carder
Elizabeth 1841 Warwickshire not found a birth mmn Aston
Do you have Joseph Twist on the 1841 census?
Can you give more details of Emma's death who was the informant ? Was it a family member?
On 1851 census - Emma shown living as 'wife' with Joseph Twist in Birmingham. So named as Emma Twist. Being 34yrs. No place of birth recorded.
On the 1851 census I see they have a son Joseph Twist - Is this his birth & do you have the birth certificate?
TWIST, JOSEPH mmn ASTON
GRO Reference: 1849 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 338
Is this Joseph & his father in 1861?
1861 Piece 2120
Folio 97
Page number 32
Kings Norton
Joseph Twist 40 Head occ Horsedealer
Joseph Twist 13 Son
both pob dittoed as Birmingham
There's also this birth entry
TWIST, CHARLES mmn ASTON
GRO Reference: 1851 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 361
and this 1871 census entry
1871 Piece 3079
Folio 123
Page number 28
Kings Norton
Joseph Twist 55 Head Bn Birmn occ Inte... :-\ op…. ???
Joseph Twist 22 Son ditto occ horse dealer
Charles Twist 18 Son bn Kings Norton occ ditto
Samuel Twist 16 Son ditto occ ditto
1861 census
Charles age 10 and Samuel Twist age 8 are boarding with a William & Eliza Dedicoat
Not found a birth entry for Samuel to confirm mmn but there is this possible marriage same occupation as 1871 census but he has a middle name and his father's occ is different ???
Samuel Gunn Twist Age 21, occ horse dealer
Father Joseph Twist, occ builder
Spouse Mary Ann Wright
Married 7 Oct 1872 Birmingham, Bishop Ryder, Warwickshire
There is a Joseph Twist occ builder born Birmingham c 1821 married to Caroline bn 1838 on 1881 census living Grove Road Kings Norton
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Another thought is it possible that Emma Aston was married before 1837 so would be on the 1841 census with a different surname as would be her sons John (b1837) & William (b1839) :-\
Have you tried searching just with initials?
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WOW - lot of information there for me to study. To go to the last question - there is always the possibility Emma was married before, but how is that ever going to be discovered ? Suppose searching Emma Aston in marriages ? How would I search on just initials ?
On her death certificate - long story there - it gives Emma's father as William Aston, water carrier.
Joseph and Emma had 4 children Emma (1847) Joseph (1849) Samuel (1851) Charles (1853)
I will study all the information you have kindly supplied and come back.
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Looking through information sent :
I have all the information on the Twist family, reams and reams of it. Because for a long time (years) it was thought William was a Twist so I have an incredible amount of details, many treasures discovered (wonderful for anyone researching this Twist family of Birmingham !) thick ring binder of it.
I think the fact that the birth entry for the children of Joseph and Emma give MMM as Aston would seem to confirm for me that Aston was her birth name and not from a previous marriage.
Joseph Twists occupation was always Horse dealer - it ran in the family - until the later years when he called himself a builder but he did own a lot of properties.
The Caroline mentioned as Joseph's 'wife' was another Housekeeper he was living with.
1841 census gives Joseph living with his parents and brothers.
I can give you the tale of Emma's death certificate if you think the information will help find her in 1841 and the 2 boys.
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On her death certificate - long story there - it gives Emma's father as William Aston, water carrier.
Joseph and Emma had 4 children Emma (1847) Joseph (1849) Samuel (1851) Charles (1853)
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Ok so her father is named William, so perhaps second child named after him and first child might be named after the father :-\
There is a possibility for an Emma Aston age 20 in Inge Street, St Thomas, Birmingham, Warwickshire in 1841 but no children with her.
Her children could be with another family member and their surname might be dittoed as something other than Aston ???
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Of course we know our ancestors deceived and lied at times - which has certainly been the case with this Aston / Twist family. When William Aston married in 1868 on the marriage certificate he put his father as William Aston, Gun maker. That was researched (for years) on 1841census (and others) looking for a William Aston of possible age who was a gun maker in Birmingham, but never managed to determine if this was true. Of course as William Aston born abt 1839 he was researched for years, then discovered he had been Twist at one time, so that family researched as his family, until the Will of Joseph Twist confirmed he (and John) were not his children. But if Emma is shown as MMM on birth records as Aston I can only presume that was her birth surname and not that of a husband. So where would this William Aston, gun maker as father fit in !
Of course what I really want to find is an Emma with a John and William of right age, or at least a William Aston with grandchildren John and William !
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Funnily enough, there are a few men with the surname of Aston who were Gun Makers in Birmingham in 1841 - not that it will help your query of course.
No Emma or her children with them.
Joseph Aston - aged 45 - not born in County. Gun Maker.
Living with him is Joseph Aston aged 20 - born in County - Apprentice (Gun Maker I assume, as written under Joseph senior)
William Aston - aged 25 - not born in County - Gun Maker.
George Aston - aged 40 - born in County - Gun Maker.
Henry Aston - aged 20 - born in County - Gun Maker.
William Aston - aged 20 - born in County - Gun Fiinisher.
Thomas Aston - aged 17 - born in County - Gun Maker.
How odd that so many Astons are connected with Guns in Birmingham!!
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Thank you for the suggestions of possibilities for William Aston, gun maker. I will take a look at each one and see what I can make of them. I had looked years ago but nothing seemed to fit that I could make the connection with Emma and / or the two boys.