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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Lisnagarrankearney on Tuesday 24 September 24 13:16 BST (UK)
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Hi Everyone,
Probably a bit of a long one, but I'm kinda at my wits end.
Background: Got most of the family i'm looking for, but when records start there's a few others close by who seem to stay in their churches. Therefore, lines start and run parallel but unsure if they're related. They all name themselves the same 12 names, so its difficult to know if Patrick is the father, brother, cousin, son, nephew when he pops up. Helpfully, they all marry a Mary/Sarah, so a James and Mary having a kid could literally be like 5 couples at the same time.
General questions:
- Ideas for other churches around Portglenone/Rasharkin/Ahoghill/Bellaghy/Tamlaught that will maybe have missing people? I.e. I see a few baptised in magherafelt/Randalstown - likely to be related or no?
- I heard that, prior to the catholic churches keeping records, that they had to go to protestant churches and be registered there. Is this true? I.e. if Ahoghill catholic starts in 1833, then if I find Ahoghill records for the protestant church before then, is it likely that its the same family?
- What is the likelihood of the registrations in Belfast (with no fathers/mothers listed), being related to the family in Portglenone/Ballymena/Ahoghill?
- Is it likely that someone would go to different churches for different events? I.e. if I find a James/Mary in Ahoghill, will he stay there or will it be likely he's the James/Mary in Randalstown/Belfast?
- Burials in Aughnahoy Cemetary/Ahoghill (for catholics) doesn't appear to really go that far back. In fact, looking online, what happened to anyone before, say, 1790? Where would someone, dying prior to 1800 in Ballymena/Portglenone/Ahoghill, as a catholic, be buried? Is this a case of "no records exist" or "they weren't buried there"?
- Save for the tithe applotment books/griffiths etc, what other primary sources do we really have? Does anyone know about the O'neill's estate records, how good they are? (I understand some were burned in the fire at the castle?)
- What was the likelihood of movement really like back then? For example, it looks from general commentary that Kearneys in Antrim were a branch of the O'neills (so...were in Antrim and stayed in Antrim?), and somehow the others Dublin/Kildare are separate (all using the same spelling). But then there is family lore saying that "5 brothers moved to Antrim" and started what we know as Kearneys. We know two brothers. The Surname distribution also puts a strong 50 births in the family at the turn of the 1800s in Antrim - so looks well established?
- What sources of catholic clergy exist? Kearney's/Devines were an "ecclesiastic family", which points perhaps to being on land that doesn't require tithes. There's also a few Kearney priests knocking around at the same time, but its difficult to tell.
Thanks for reading. I'm just seeing various parallells but want to be sure before I add anyone.
Also, if you are from Graham/Higgins/O'Neills/McAuley/McAtamney/O'Hara or you are from Lisnahunshin/Portglenone and have any knowledge prior to 1833, please send through.
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Hello,
Fascinating questions - and so relevant to my research as well. I've spent the better part of the past year learning a lot about Bellaghy, Portglenone, Ballyscullion, Drummaul, Ahoghill, Randalstown, and the general area looking for McNallys. Of which there were many.
Even after all of this research, I can't provide guidance on your questions - with one possible exception, #6.
I suspect that my paternal g, g, grandfather ("James", of course!) or his father, might have done seasonal work in Scotland. I recently found this: Ireland, Irish Emigration Lists, 1833-1839 (on Ancestry). I believe these records are extracted from a larger collection - an Ordnance Survey of Antrim. Although this time frame is too early to have included my g, g, grandfather, I suspect some of the McNallys / McAnallys included are my relatives. Thought it might be of use to you.
I don't share any of the other surnames you've listed, with the exception of O'Neill. Do you have a public tree anywhere that I could take a look at?
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- I heard that, prior to the catholic churches keeping records, that they had to go to protestant churches and be registered there. Is this true? I.e. if Ahoghill catholic starts in 1833, then if I find Ahoghill records for the protestant church before then, is it likely that its the same family?
The starting dates you are seeing in online or in physical Catholic registers may not be the same as the establishment date for a particular parish, i.e. a child could have been baptised in a Catholic church in Ahoghill before 1833 but there's no written record available. The parish may not have been keeping records, or the registers did not survive.
Sometimes Catholics might marry in an established Church pre 1845, but as far as I know more likely if they were well off and property was involved.
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... if I find Ahoghill records for the protestant church ...
You probably mean the Church of Ireland one there rather than any of the three Presbyterian ones or the Moravian one at Gracehill.
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/Guide-to-Church-Records-October-2019.pdf
... But then there is family lore saying that "5 brothers moved to Antrim" and started what we know as Kearneys. We know two brothers. ...
I've lost count of how many family stories, especially ones compiled in Victorian times, start with 5 (or 4 or 3 or 2) brothers coming to a place then taking separate roads and settling in different places.
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I suspect that my paternal g, g, grandfather ("James", of course!) or his father, might have done seasonal work in Scotland. I recently found this: Ireland, Irish Emigration Lists, 1833-1839 (on Ancestry). I believe these records are extracted from a larger collection - an Ordnance Survey of Antrim. Although this time frame is too early to have included my g, g, grandfather, I suspect some of the McNallys / McAnallys included are my relatives. Thought it might be of use to you.
I saw this and although it included "age", it didn't say when the record was. For someone to be, say, 22 at some point in 1833-1839, it could literally be like 8 people in the family tree. All living from the same town so I've hesitated to add as of yet. But thank you!
I don't share any of the other surnames you've listed, with the exception of O'Neill. Do you have a public tree anywhere that I could take a look at?
This is the link for the origins: https://www.kearneyreunion.com/family-tree/
What is the last names you know of / do you have a family tree?
The O'Neill i'm most interested in is-
Sara(h) O'Neill, born ~1839-1841 in Co. Antrim (likely Ahoghill/Portglenone and likely actually 1839), died 1908. She did not emigrate. She married Patrick Kearney (~1854) and had a boat load of kids (at least 8 but, again, family lore/newspapers say more). They appear in both Portglenone and Ahoghill records.
I think her father is Hugh O'Neill, and there's a Jane O'neill popping up every now and again to witness some of Sara's kids births. Unsure if thats her mother or what.
It appears that the O'Neill/O'Hara/Cassidy/Kearney's all intertwine around here. E.g. Michael O'Hara marries Nancy Agnes O'Neill (Portglenone) and has a kid named Jane O'Hara. This Jane O’Hara marries the above mentioned Patrick/Sarah's kid James Kearney.
I've lost count of how many family stories, especially ones compiled in Victorian times, start with 5 (or 4 or 3 or 2) brothers coming to a place then taking separate roads and settling in different places.
Right? I dismissed it entirely, but apart from one other person who made the website listed here, nobody has ever tried to compile family history in our known family.
It’s weird though as when I went to visit a grave (dates were unclear on the photos online), the graveyard keeper told ME the story. I asked him where he heard it, and he had heard it from his grandfather etc.
Also there are other Kearneys getting married/dying/having kids in Portglenone/Ahoghill/Bellaghy/Magherafelt but they are just “there” from the start. I therefore don’t know if they are brothers/fathers/nephews etc (or some other family entirely).