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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: Lins_Australia on Monday 23 September 24 02:17 BST (UK)
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My 4 x gt grandfather - Richard Parry - has his baptism recorded at Llansilin in 1769 - as Rhiwlas - to parents Edward and Ann. (He married in Shropshire in 1792).
I have Edward Parry marrying Anne Roberts at Llansilin in 1761 - by banns - they both X.
Trying to work out this Edward Parry.
The will of Simon Parry in 1761 - of Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog - gives a property Tyn y Fron (Rhiwlas) - to his nephew Richard Parry of Rhiwlas Blaen. A bequest also to the son of that Richard Parry - Edward Parry. I would like to think that this Edward Parry is 'my' Edward Parry.
I know that Simon Parry was buried at Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog in 1762, but in 1745 he was a Church Warden at Llangadwaladr, and his nephew - Richard Parry - was buried at Llangadwaladr in 1764.
The will of John Parry of Llandynan in 1729, mentions his three brothers - Edward, Philip and Simon. John Parry is buried at Llangollen in 1730.
The assumption is that one of these brothers or this family - is the father to Richard Parry who died in 1764. And that this Richard Parry is the father of the Edward Parry who married in 1761.
I have these few jigsaw pieces, but can't put them into an ancestry.
Any thoughts ?
Lindsay
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hello Lins . Parry is a typical Welsh name , my Grandfather's all came from Denbighshire and were lead miners . So good luck with your welsh ancestry Lin .
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Mine are the same. Mainly in Chirk and Ruabon.
I constructed a database of the name of all the BMDs listed in the parish records of these 2 parishes and some of the adjacent parishes to identify my line(s).
I found some in the entiy for Chirk jn the St Asaph Notitia 1666-7
https://www.library.wales/discover-learn/digital-exhibitions/archives/st-asaph-notitiae
My search is still 'on going'.
Gadget
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Thank you Gadget
When Richard Parry inherited the property Tyn y Fron / Rhiwlas in 1762 from his 'uncle' Simon Parry - would that have been enough reason for there to be probate when he died in 1764 ?
I did not find a will for him.
Tithe map of 1843 still records Richard Parry as being the owner / occupier - even though in 1841 - the property occupants are Hugh and Catherine Hughes.
The only possible baptism of an Edward Parry to a father Richard that I found:
Richard Parry and wife Mary (cannot find a marriage):
At Llangollen:
Edward - son of Richard Parry of "Havod Gynfawr" - baptised 11 Apr 1735. Son John in 1737.
Hafod-y-Gynfawr - is a locality or a property name in 1735 ?
The St Asaph notitiae - all 654 images. Is there a way to navigate that to the town you want ?
You once pointed to Llansilin in that file - but the link no longer works.
And is it a transcript that was produced - Parochial notitiae for St. Asaph Diocese, 1681-7 / Clwyd Family History Society - a booklet ? The only library copy in Australia is in Melbourne.
Too many questions ?
Greatly appreciate contributions.
Lindsay
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Hi Lindsay
As far as I can remember, Hafod-gynfawr (various spellings) is/was part of the Glyntraian and would have been in the Llangollen parish for the time that you are interested in. Also, have a look at the map and detail are of this area on Genuki:
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Llangollen.
One of my Jones familes lived in that area and they also used Selattyn or even Whittington church.
There should be a will or an inventory - it might be worth searching through the records over a wider time frame. Some legal documents can be much later than the death. Also, are you sure that Simon owned the freehold. It could be that he was a tenant.
When the St Asaph notitiae first went on line, the individual parishes were listed. It maybe that the collection has been refiled. It might be worth doing a wider search or phone the library. If I have time, I'll have a look.
I'll get back to you with any other info that I find.
Gadget
PS - parts of Llansilin parish were in Oswestry - again my Roberts/Ellis family were there for a while
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Llansilin
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If you scroll down to the bottom of the link that I gave to the Notitiae, you'll find a link listing (in blue) of the individual places in Alpha order.
E.G Llansilin is here:
https://viewer.library.wales/4776531#?c=&m=&s=0&cv=221&xywh=-1895%2C-136%2C5738%2C2718
Note that it says
There were no returns from the following parishes: Abergele, Carno, Eglwys Fach, Llanarmon, Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog, Llanarmon Mynydd Mawr, Llanbrynmair, Llandysilio, Llanefydd, Llanrwst, Llanycil, Merchwiel, Nannerch, Penegoes, Pennant, Pentre Voelas, St Asaph, Sychtyn, Wrexham.
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Re LLANCADWALADR
I've just remembered that it was different!!
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Llangadwaladr
"A parish in the Union of Llanfyllin, in the Cynlleth and Mochnant divisions of the hundred of Chirk, county of Denbigh; 9 miles (W by N) from Oswestry, containing 205 inhabitants. This place was formerly a chapelry in the parish of Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant, but was separated from it by Act of Parliament, and formed into a parish of itself. The village is situated in a small valley surrounded by barren mountains of dreary aspect, and is not distinguished by any peculiar features." [A Topographical Dictionary of Wales, 1833 & 1849, Samuel Lewis]
I can't remember it being barren or dreary but there was a long pull up the road from the Glyn side
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Hi again Lindsay
I've just had a thought that you might read the posts via e-mail rather than the whole thread.
I've added a few additions to some of my posts so that the issues that I was dealing with were together.
These additions can't be read if you use the e-mail route so it's best to read the thread itself.
Gadget
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Re your will/probate query - see this:
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/wills-or-administrations-before-1858/
Gadget
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I'm now a little confused about your time line as it relates to the Will of Simon, proved 10th June 1762.
Are you suggesting that Richard (nephew and the main inheritor in the will) is the son of one of Simon's brothers?
If so, Richard, nephew was b 1769 so he was not alive in 1761/62 when the will was dated.
The will also mentions Edward, son of the said Richard. He must have also been alive in 1761/1762
Could you clarify the generations please?
Gadget
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You link this info to John Parry d..c. 1729 who has 3 brothers mentioned in his will: Edward Philip,Simon
Dates of
John (d circa 1729/1730) Edward Phillip Simon
Do you have any witnesses to marriages, parents of baptisms of this family? Also deaths, etc of John's 3 brothers.
I prefer to work backwards and it seems that you are making the odd leap :-\
Gadget
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Gadget
The will of Simon Parry - signed 7 April 1761 at Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog - names his nephew - Richard Parry - as being of Blaen y Rhiwlas. The property named Tyn y Fron.
I believe that Richard Parry (Simon's nephew) - (of Rhiwlas) - was buried at Llangadwaladr - 18 Oct 1764. Edward Parry who married Anne Roberts in 1761 -and some of his children - of Llansilin Parish - are buried at Llangawaladr - where his father Richard I surmise - was first buried in 1764.
Simon Parry was buried at Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog 28 May 1762.
That will of Simon - also mentions that Richard Parry (his nephew) - has a son - Edward Parry.
"I give and bequeath to Edward Parry son of the above named Richard Parry the sum of five pounds ....."
I would like to take that Edward Parry - to be the father of my 4x gg - Richard Parry born 1769.
Edward Parry married Jane Roberts 19 May 1761 at Llansilin.
Simon Parry is not so common a name - and in trying to link him to a wider Parry family - I came up with that will of a John Parry 1729 wherein he gives a brother - Simon. I have not been able yet to come up with more to make that connection.
The Simon Parry will of 1761 - also mentions - arrangements for his funeral - in case he should die at "Llwyth - tere" - which I suspect to be Llwythder-isaf / uchaf - Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog parish.
You have given me a lot to work on. Not easy in the pre 1754 era - and an area having to deal with patronymic names. Thank you so much for being so generous with your help here.
As an aside:
I have not mentioned - that I have researched a family from Corwen / Carrog / Mwstwr - Merionethshire. Corwen records (Llangar) not easy to work with.
It is an example of the creation of a Parry dynasty. Henry ap Robert married Margaret verch Edmund. His will of 1706 names his children. His wife's will of 1728 brings an update to the 1706 information. His daughter Elizabeth spinster in her will of 1758 again brings info up to date. Nine children who become Parry. Most have marriage bonds and wills - wealthy yeoman. A son Edward Parry owned property at Llantysilio - Pen y Bryn. And a son - Simon Parry. And a granddaughter - Catherine Oliver - who marries a John Parry of Llangollen Fawr - this John Parry who dies intestate as John Parry Jnr - a carpenter -in 1729 - not the same John Parry of 1729 / 1730 as discussed earlier.
So you see - a whole Parry clan from Corwen - with tantalising links into Llangollen - and I tried to use that Simon Parry as a way to connect him and his nephew Richard Parry - to my Edward Parry person. But NONE of the Merionethshire Parry wills ever mentions a nephew / son - Richard !
Only that one will of a Simon Parry of 1761.
Lindsay
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I read Simon's will and all you said in your first post and found your dates don'tseem to fit. Have you investigated the Hughes?
Could you possibly draw up a tree that you think is accurate. Giving the location(s) of those that you know are your ancestors.
Gadget
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I have ancestors from many of the places that you mention. What sources have you used? FindMyPast is pretty good for online parish records for the Welsh counties and the Clwyd FHS is very good. Also, remember the adjacent Shropshire parishes and into Montgomeryshire.
Patronymics is not too bad and can often give a direct line. Some of the parishes around Llyn Tegid/Bala Lake flip flopped between patronymics and surname entries depending on the vicar! I have one brother who was a Roberts and one who was an Ellis. I finally discovered this when the Ellis was mentioned on a document as brother of the Roberts*!
Gadget
*which led me to their father - Robert Ellis
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Another source that you might like to go through is Welsh Newspapers online.
https://newspapers.library.wales/
You might be able to find reports of BMDs and other events for the later Parrys.
Gadget
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If you scroll down to the bottom of the link that I gave to the Notitiae, you'll find a link listing (in blue) of the individual places in Alpha order.
E.G Llansilin is here:
https://viewer.library.wales/4776531#?c=&m=&s=0&cv=221&xywh=-1895%2C-136%2C5738%2C2718
Note that it says
There were no returns from the following parishes: Abergele, Carno, Eglwys Fach, Llanarmon, Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog, Llanarmon Mynydd Mawr, Llanbrynmair, Llandysilio, Llanefydd, Llanrwst, Llanycil, Merchwiel, Nannerch, Penegoes, Pennant, Pentre Voelas, St Asaph, Sychtyn, Wrexham.
I think Llanarmon Mynydd Mawr is included in Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant. I can't quite make out all of what it says at the top of the Llanrhaeadr record, but Llanarmon MM is definitely there. The records are arranged by hundreds, and if you scroll down to page 218, you will find Llanarmon. Similarly Sychtyn is on page 222.
Thanks for the records - it's a brilliant resource. A lot of my dad's family come from some of these parishes.