RootsChat.Com

Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Mary Jane Craig on Sunday 22 September 24 17:56 BST (UK)

Title: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: Mary Jane Craig on Sunday 22 September 24 17:56 BST (UK)
I am researching post offices and post masters in the Strabane area of Tyrone during the period 1895-1920. In particular, an Oliver Black or any Blacks in the  Strabane/Ardsdraw areas.  Where all post offices at that time regulated or did they also run as other businesses on the side?
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 22 September 24 18:41 BST (UK)

List of County Tyrone Post Offices-

https://www.gbps.org.uk/tools/ukpo/pdfs/northern-ireland/Tyrone.pdf

Postmasters in 1911 census (Co Tyrone)
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tf5/



Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: J.J. on Sunday 22 September 24 19:15 BST (UK)
A page on this site lists the birth & christenings at First Strabane Presbyterian Church of three sons to an Oliver Black & Isabella Gallagher, who resided in Belmont . Perhaps you might find more on here:
https://mail.cotyroneireland.com/churchrecord/1stStrabaneBaptisms1923-37.html

Images
https://oldstrabane.blogspot.com/2010/10/post-office-main-street.html
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 22 September 24 19:16 BST (UK)
Putting in Black as the surname and post* as occupation there are no results in Co. Tyrone or anyone born in Co. Tyrone and living elsewhere.

There are two Oliver Blacks in all of Ireland in 1901 and those 2 plus one other in 1911 but not in Co. Tyrone.

I also checked for Will extract for Oliver Black without finding anything matching Co. Tyrone.

It was quite common for post offices in the areas outside towns to be run in connection with another business such as a shop.

In 1911 there's an Agnes McCrossan working in a post office in Ardstraw but her father is a labourer-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Churchlands/Ardstraw/847854/
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 22 September 24 19:21 BST (UK)
Marriage of Oliver Black & Isabella Gallagher in 1929-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1929/09054/5275805.pdf
Oliver (farmer) is one of the Blacks in Co, Donegal in 1901 and 1911 but Ramelton isn't really near Strabane or Ardstraw.
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: Mary Jane Craig on Sunday 22 September 24 20:17 BST (UK)

List of County Tyrone Post Offices-


Thanks so much for this. How did you search for postmasters using the census? Very helpful 
https://www.gbps.org.uk/tools/ukpo/pdfs/northern-ireland/Tyrone.pdf

Postmasters in 1911 census (Co Tyrone)
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tf5/
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: Mary Jane Craig on Sunday 22 September 24 20:19 BST (UK)
A page on this site lists the birth & christenings at First Strabane Presbyterian Church of three sons to an Oliver Black & Isabella Gallagher, who resided in Belmont . Perhaps you might find more on here:
https://mail.cotyroneireland.com/churchrecord/1stStrabaneBaptisms1923-37.html

Images
https://oldstrabane.blogspot.com/2010/10/post-office-main-street.html

That's great thanks so much.
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 22 September 24 20:31 BST (UK)


List of County Tyrone Post Offices-


Thanks so much for this. How did you search for postmasters using the census? Very helpful 
https://www.gbps.org.uk/tools/ukpo/pdfs/northern-ireland/Tyrone.pdf

Postmasters in 1911 census (Co Tyrone)
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tf5/

Looks as if your reply text is in the wrong place.

Click on the Blue 'More Search Options' and type Postmaster in the Occupation 'Box'


Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 22 September 24 23:19 BST (UK)
If you'd like help finding information perhaps you could tell us how Oliver Black or Black family and Strabane/Ardstraw are supposed to fit with post office.

Quote
Click on the Blue 'More Search Options' and type Postmaster in the Occupation 'Box'
Actually, Kiltaglassan's suggestion is incorrect. You need to put post* into the occupation box to get results for post office office, postal clerk, postmistress, postman, etc.
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: J.J. on Monday 23 September 24 01:07 BST (UK)
Oliver Black -  Birth 30 Aug 1878
Father: Oliver Black  Mother: Elizabeth Warden
Fahan, County Donegal, Ireland / Registered Londonderry
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRQJ-CTL

Fahan, Ramelton, Strabane, are neighbouring towns, which I'd consider quite close together.
(Small town gal who walked/rode to neighbouring farms & villages)
Map http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tf6/
Cannot find Belmont BTW...No longer a viable street name? Village? Misnomer? 

mariners: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Perhaps the older Oliver Black c. 1859 - from Loch Swiltey, Ireland 
  (Likely Lough Swilly which is just north of Fahan)
Oliver Black; 1883-1885  place of birth, Londonderry
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 23 September 24 07:16 BST (UK)
Oliver Black -  Birth 30 Aug 1878
Father: Oliver Black  Mother: Elizabeth Warden
Fahan, County Donegal, Ireland / Registered Londonderry
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRQJ-CTL
.............

Registrar's District was Burt.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02942/2077929.pdf


Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: Mary Jane Craig on Monday 23 September 24 09:13 BST (UK)
It looks like Oliver Black was never a postmaster
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 23 September 24 09:26 BST (UK)
Fahan, Ramelton, Strabane, are neighbouring towns, which I'd consider quite close together.
(Small town gal who walked/rode to neighbouring farms & villages)
Map http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tf6/
Cannot find Belmont BTW...No longer a viable village? Misnomer?

Fahan is about 25 miles from Strabane and in Irish terms is not that close, Ardstraw even further from Fahan. Ramelton probably almost as far from Strabane, Fahan to Ramelton about 45 miles unless you go by water.

Londonderry Sentinel, 29 June 1935: Legal Notices ... John Black and James Gallagher Black, minors, ... Oliver Black, late of Curraghalane, otherwise Belmont, Lifford, in the county of Donegal, who died on or about the 13th day of September, 1931, and the Creditor, Isabella Black ...

It looks like Oliver Black was never a postmaster
Which Oliver Black were you looking for?

Added-
https://www.townlands.ie/donegal/raphoe-north/clonleigh/clonleigh-south/curraghalane/
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 23 September 24 09:37 BST (UK)
Very sad-
Belfast Telegraph, 25 Sept.1931: Lose Both Parents In Week. On Wednesday the remains of Mrs. Oliver Black, of Belmont, Lifford, were interred in Killydonnell Abbey Graveyard, Ramelton, where a week previously the remains of her husband were laid. Much sympathy is extended to their young …

Black Oliver of Belmont Lifford county Donegal farmer died 13 September 1931 Administration (limited) Belfast 13 February [1934] to John Gallagher farmer and Frank Vivian Gordon solicitor. Effects £2016 19s. 10d.
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: Mary Jane Craig on Monday 23 September 24 09:46 BST (UK)
That's so sad. A family wiped out by disease. I have visited Ramelton and found the farm that Oliver Black owned. It's derelict now. 
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 23 September 24 10:55 BST (UK)
There's a bit more to the story which is even sadder-
Premature son (Oliver) died 15 May 1931-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1931/04899/4327723.pdf
Then Oliver & wife Isabella in September of typhoid fever-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1933/04858/4311528.pdf
They were only married in Mar.1929 so the two surviving sons couldn't have been that old-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1929/09054/5275805.pdf
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: J.J. on Tuesday 24 September 24 00:55 BST (UK)
Awe...The site shows James & Oliver were twins, b. 1832 &  John b. 1831 so they were just wee babies. The mother may have had complications after childbirth...plus the grief to deal with.
https://mail.cotyroneireland.com/churchrecord/1stStrabaneBaptisms1923-37.htm

I now see Belmont comes up on recent maps when using "Belmont, Lifford"

Too bad we can't find a postal worker for you, Mary Jane Craig. There were also Sub-postmasters. If he was a rural mail carrier, he may not have had a title...but here are some titles & more information.
https://www.postalmuseum.org/collections/the-archive/family-history/roles/
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: J.J. on Tuesday 24 September 24 01:35 BST (UK)
 Just looked for something and found a similar very old thread on here... also unresolved but more detailed (& confusing) information given...you worked on this one, aghadowey !
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=733696.0

 Also creates a new rabbithole
"I'm researching my great grandfather Oliver Black born about 1876 and was listed as being a postmaster before his death circa 1919. He possibly came from Donegal and had a son James Stephen Black born about 1898 in Tyrone."

   This recent post's Oliver Black married a Galligher then called a son James Galligher Black...
... I may have lost the plot after reading 8 more pages of posts.? ( Highly likely...old brain )

Adding...They're looking for an Oliver born c.1876 which certainly looks as though it could be the one in this tree (realize now that Rathmelton/Ráth Mealtain = Ramelton) or the marine born 1878 Fahan
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/M6T7-BLF

Adding 2 more old threads re: Oliver Black & son
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=772733
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=751643
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: J.J. on Tuesday 24 September 24 15:53 BST (UK)
   Trouble is, we all know that people tell little fibs, even on important documents.  It could be that the father may have been dead to him, rather than actually dead. (How old was the father when he died 1831...If he's the one born 1876, might he have considered a first child in a will?)
   Also, the father was said to have died before James married in 1919 so if true, may have occurred any time after the birth of James.
   Stephen could have even been the mother's maiden name. The previous searchers 9 yrs ago even suggest the lad may have been informally adopted by his caregivers. It would be nice to find something concrete, but even with a forename like Oliver, we might  as well be looking for a John.
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 24 September 24 17:09 BST (UK)
Has anyone checked the UK, Postal Service Appointment Books on Ancestry
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/1933/?srsltid=AfmBOoo3G_GtKnkFJ7g_l3uiRYHY35fa0OsuChVRKb3X5plBzcFEj6kW

I don't have a sub
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: Mary Jane Craig on Tuesday 24 September 24 17:20 BST (UK)
I think I liked at that a few years back. there was an Oliver Black but in London. Could be interesting to check again as James was in Exeter for some reason in 1919 working as a garage clerk.
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: Mary Jane Craig on Tuesday 24 September 24 17:53 BST (UK)
   Trouble is, we all know that people tell little fibs, even on important documents.  It could be that the father may have been dead to him, rather than actually dead. (How old was the father when he died 1831...If he's the one born 1876, might he have considered a first child in a will?)
   Also, the father was said to have died before James married in 1919 so if true, may have occurred any time after the birth of James.
   Stephen could have even been the mother's maiden name. The previous searchers 9 yrs ago even suggest the lad may have been informally adopted by his caregivers. It would be nice to find something concrete, but even with a forename like Oliver, we might  as well be looking for a John.



Yes, true but it's that odd he said the name Oliver and Postmaster. There must be a link even though he might not be his father. I think the family he lived in with in 1911 in Drumnahoe had links to a post office via James Sinclair Black and his wife Maggie. Defo no DNA links with the though. I need a crystal ball !!
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: J.J. on Tuesday 24 September 24 21:26 BST (UK)
If this one (not marked as a relative, though)...Perhaps the issue was religion, or parents way too young to marry & care for a child. Have you searched this one dry?
   1911 census as a boarder...with another James Black- His Aunts Isabella & Magggie
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Douglasburn/Drumnahoe/848123/
   1901 Here older James marked as son...If in usual relationship to head would be Bella
Could this be James with surname "Gallagher" age 5 (but marked as Roman Catholic)
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Douglasburn/Drumnahoe/1751650/
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: Mary Jane Craig on Tuesday 24 September 24 22:02 BST (UK)
If this one (not marked as a relative, though)...Perhaps the issue was religion, or parents way too young to marry & care for a child. Have you searched this one dry?
   1911 census as a boarder...with another James Black- His Aunts Isabella & Magggie
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Douglasburn/Drumnahoe/848123/
   1901 Here older James marked as son...If in usual relationship to head would be Bella
Could this be James with surname "Gallagher" age 5 (but marked as Roman Catholic)
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Douglasburn/Drumnahoe/1751650/

Yes, I'm almost sure he was James Gallagher in 1901. I have tried to trace that one and it looks like he has disappeared or morphed into James Black aged 15 in 1911. A couple of likely birth records to single mothers in work houses.
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 25 September 24 00:13 BST (UK)
Much as we all love a good hunt...this might just be an Oopsie-Daisy...that the family covered up... we weren't ever meant to find, or know more about.
   It would have been good to have been aware of other previous hunts with a link or two. Your cryptic hints that you have more information isn't helpful.

     ...and...Who is James Sinclair Black, BTW???
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: Mary Jane Craig on Wednesday 25 September 24 07:47 BST (UK)
I wasnt being unhelpful as I’m very grateful for all the help I have been given. It’s just that I don’t want to mislead anyone with unhelpful links that I may be making assumptions about. James Stephen Black is my grandfather .
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 25 September 24 09:18 BST (UK)
It would have been far better, easier and quicker if this thread had started along the lines of 'My grandfather James Stephen Black was born _ in Ireland and his 1919 marriage in England lists his father as Oliver Black, postmaster. I'm looking for details about his father' rather than asking about postmasters in Tyrone with a connection to an Oliver Black or any Blacks.

Several times I posted information which was seemingly ignored (post #3,4, 8) and questions also went unanswered.
If you'd like help finding information perhaps you could tell us how Oliver Black or Black family and Strabane/Ardstraw are supposed to fit with post office.
and
Which Oliver Black were you looking for?

I think I did actually come across something useful pertaining to your grandfather's family which I didn't post at the time because you didn't provide us with enough details.
Title: Re: Post offices in Tyrone 1895- 1920
Post by: Mary Jane Craig on Wednesday 25 September 24 09:29 BST (UK)
Yes, you’re right. I’m using my phone so don’t see all the comments in order. I wasn’t ignoring you. And thanks for helping.