RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Daffodilica on Wednesday 18 September 24 20:13 BST (UK)
-
I have someone in my husband's side of the tree born in the 1960s, who has 'adopted' written on their birth certificate. Is it possible to search for an adoption record from the 1960s? If so, where do I start?
This person was my husband's cousin, and my husband would be the next of kin, if that makes a difference.
Thanks!
-
You haven't mentioned a location but each country will have it's own rules regarding what details might be available to an adoptee or their family. You husband, even if he is next of kin, may not qualify to get information from the official records.
-
Is the person still alive? If so he can make an application for his adoption records. If deceased - any of his children can apply. If no children then your husband is in with a chance
Adoption records are private & not available online
-
Thanks for the replies - the cousin is still alive, I put 'was' in my original post because the cousin lives overseas and is very ill (we are in the UK). The cousin does not have any children, parents are deceased, so my husband is technically the next of kin.
Would my husband be able to apply for adoption details in the UK? His cousin was born and adopted in the UK, and later moved overseas.
-
There are several "If's Buts & Maybe's" here & I think you really need to check the position with Social Services
While he is still alive - no
Although he has no children - if he is married then his wife is his next of kin.
If he was adopted & has living siblings within his adopted family - I think they would be classed as his next of kin but not sure about that.
If he was born in the 1960's there is a possibility his biological mother may still be alive so I doubt Social Services would just release any documents but you need to check that scenario with them.
-
If his birth certificate has “ adopted “ on it then presumably that is his birth name. As I understand it when a new certificate is issued in the new name there is nothing to indicate adoption.
When I did some research for a friend we discovered he had a half brother and sister, both certificates had adopted on them, as they had been adopted out, he fund he had no right to access their adoption information.
-
Has your husband discussed this issue with your cousin? If not - how do you know his birth cert has "Adopted" written on it?
-
Thanks for all the info - we ordered a copy of the birth certificate, and it has 'adopted' written on it. There's just the mother's name, but no father.
-
.
-
Having helped my daughter-in-law to trace the adoption records of her mother, who was adopted as a baby in 1945, I believe that the law is that only the adopted person or, if they are deceased one of their children, is entitled access to adoption records. A cousin or next of kin (I believe even a legal partner) would not qualify for access.
The law was only changed a few years ago to allow children of deceased adoptees access to information; even the Barnardo's case worker (the adoption agency concerned in this case) was not aware of the change in law when my DIL approached them for information. Once I showed them the new rules they quickly provided the information.
-
This person was my husband's cousin, and my husband would be the next of kin, if that makes a difference.
As farmeroman says, only descendants or spouses (including civil partners) of adopted people can apply for the adoption records. See Regulation 2A of the The Adoption Information and Intermediary Services (Pre-Commencement Adoptions) Regulations 2005 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/890/regulation/2A) as amended. Next of kin outside the 'Prescribed relationship' do not qualify. Your husband's best option is to get his cousin to apply, even if your husband actually fills in the details and processes the application. The fact that the cousin lives overseas won't matter.
-
This person was my husband's cousin, and my husband would be the next of kin, if that makes a difference.
As farmeroman says, only descendants or spouses (including civil partners) of adopted people can apply for the adoption records. See Regulation 2A of the The Adoption Information and Intermediary Services (Pre-Commencement Adoptions) Regulations 2005 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/890/regulation/2A) as amended. Next of kin outside the 'Prescribed relationship' do not qualify. Your husband's best option is to get his cousin to apply, even if your husband actually fills in the details and processes the application. The fact that the cousin lives overseas won't matter.
Ah, so spouses or civil parners can gain access too. I didn't know that.
-
Thanks for all the info - we ordered a copy of the birth certificate, and it has 'adopted' written on it. There's just the mother's name, but no father.
That's interesting; this sounds like his original birth certificate, so if the cousin still has the same surname it is possible that the baby was adopted within the family (as was the case with my DIL's mother, despite the family pretending this wasn't the case). Unless of course it's a very common name like Jones or Davies ...
-
Thanks for the replies - the cousin is still alive, I put 'was' in my original post because the cousin lives overseas and is very ill (we are in the UK). The cousin does not have any children, parents are deceased, so my husband is technically the next of kin.
Would my husband be able to apply for adoption details in the UK? His cousin was born and adopted in the UK, and later moved overseas.
Just to clear up the adoption issue- there is no such thing as a 'U'K' adoption. Scotland and Northern Ireland (both part of the U.K. have entirely separate rules from England and Wales.
If the birth certificate is the cousin's original pre-adoption certificate then he must have known his birth name in order to order it.
Regarding 'next of kin' even if the cousin was deceased, had living no children and adoptive parents were now deceased then I suspect a cousin (even if related through the adoptive family) would have no rights to get the information.
-
As I understand it once a person is legally adopted the adoptive family become those legally entitled to inherit their assets.
As they have their original birth certificate and know their birth name then the only way of finding their Father is via a DNA test
-
As I understand it once a person is legally adopted the adoptive family become those legally entitled to inherit their assets.
As they have their original birth certificate and know their birth name then the only way of finding their Father is via a DNA test
The adoption file may, or may not, list details of the birth father.
-
Thanks all - it looks likely that we will be unable to view the adoption details, from the advice you have all given.
Just to give you the full background - my husband originally thought that his cousin was his actual sibling, which is why we ordered the birth certificate and why we can't speak to the cousin about it. This stems from something that was half-said by my mother-in-law when she was very ill before she died. She indicated there was a family secret, and when we looked at her funeral wishes, she had provided four readings, when there are three (known) siblings, which we thought was odd.
My husband's parents married four years before my husband's elder brother was born, and in those four years, his cousin was born. We both thought that perhaps my husband's mum went off and had a child (his 'cousin'). So, when we received his cousin's birth certificate, it had no father listed, and they were born miles away from where they lived.
So, we think my husband's mum had the child. We think she gave a false name on the birth certificate, namely my husband's aunt, who then 'adopted' the child. The aunt never had any other children.
Does this all sound feasible or far-fetched? We have no way of knowing whether the cousin is an actual sibling as we can't ask. which is why I wondered whether the adoption record might shed some light on what happened. It seems odd that the aunt's name is on the birth certificate, but also that the child was 'adopted', even though they lived with the aunt (their named mother) their whole life.
It's intriguing, and unfortunately there are no older relatives left to ask!
-
A court must have granted the adoption order otherwise that wouldn't be recorded on the certificate but it seems unlikely there is any way to prove/disprove details on the certificate beyond the dna route.
Neither my birth cert or adoption file (1960's in England), name my father and although my file did mention he had other children there were some who were never mentioned who I have subsequently found. Although you can't access the adoption file it may not have the full or correct story anyway if mine is anything to go by. My file is almost a two part document spanning almost a year from late 1966 to late 1967 as there was some confusion about a medical query. The story of the 'why' I was adopted changes between the two versions as do some details about the family members. I can never be certain which (if either), is true.
Another quirk of my file is that any reference to the couple who adopted me is redacted but there's a photo of me with an 'unknown' female, the unknown female is my adoptive mother. Nobody in the SS has a clue how it got there (so they claim anyway), as they've never come across the situation before.
-
Thanks all - it looks likely that we will be unable to view the adoption details, from the advice you have all given.
Just to give you the full background - my husband originally thought that his cousin was his actual sibling, which is why we ordered the birth certificate and why we can't speak to the cousin about it. This stems from something that was half-said by my mother-in-law when she was very ill before she died. She indicated there was a family secret, and when we looked at her funeral wishes, she had provided four readings, when there are three (known) siblings, which we thought was odd.
My husband's parents married four years before my husband's elder brother was born, and in those four years, his cousin was born. We both thought that perhaps my husband's mum went off and had a child (his 'cousin'). So, when we received his cousin's birth certificate, it had no father listed, and they were born miles away from where they lived.
So, we think my husband's mum had the child. We think she gave a false name on the birth certificate, namely my husband's aunt, who then 'adopted' the child. The aunt never had any other children.
Does this all sound feasible or far-fetched?
We have no way of knowing whether the cousin is an actual sibling as we can't ask.
which is why I wondered whether the adoption record might shed some light on what happened. It seems odd that the aunt's name is on the birth certificate, but also that the child was 'adopted', even though they lived with the aunt (their named mother) their whole life.
It's intriguing, and unfortunately there are no older relatives left to ask!
Your statement highlighted above is factually incorrect.
You can easily prove the relationship!
I have already suggested that a DNA test is taken.
If your Husband and the “Cousin” both take an Ancestry DNA test then the results will show the level or the actual biological relationship between them (if indeed there is or is not one).
As you seem to have run out of paper records then DNA is the only route open to you to solve or otherwise any theory that you might have.
Good luck in your quest.
-
Is your mother-in-law's sister deceased? If yes, are there any records pertaining to her that might contain any clues? (A will, an obit, a funeral record, a cemetery record?)
It does seem odd that she would have had to go through an official adoption process, when her name was on the birth certificate.
Wouldn't the mother's name on the birth certificate have to be amended if it was discovered or admitted legally that it had been falsified? (If so, both the mother's given name and the surname would have had to have been changed, because your mother-in-law's legal surname was her married name.)
Did anyone else in the family have the same given name(s) as the woman who raised (and presumably adopted) your husband's cousin?
Did your mother-in-law have any other sisters who were old enough to have had a baby at that time? Or any cousins?
You don't necessarily have to have older relatives to ask: sometimes people tell their children the family secrets. I've heard a few stories about someone not knowing s/he was adopted but all their cousins (or some of their cousins) knew, because their mothers told them at some point.
Did your mother-in-law have a will? Aside from her funeral wishes (I don't understand what is meant by having four readings instead of three), did she make any provisions for your husband's cousin?
Good luck!
-
P.S.
Do you know if your husband's cousin was born in a hospital or a maternity home for unwed mothers?
-
My husband's parents married four years before my husband's elder brother was born, and in those four years, his cousin was born. We both thought that perhaps my husband's mum went off and had a child (his 'cousin'). So, when we received his cousin's birth certificate, it had no father listed, and they were born miles away from where they lived.
So, we think my husband's mum had the child. We think she gave a false name on the birth certificate, namely my husband's aunt, who then 'adopted' the child. The aunt never had any other children.
Did the aunt (cousin's adopted mother) ever marry? if so, how many years before or after cousin was born? If aunt had the child and was unmarried (as birth certificate seems to indicate) but later married and new husband (who may or may not have been father of child) adopted child that might explain the birth certificate with 'adopted' on it.