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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Anglesey => Wales => Anglesey Lookup Requests => Topic started by: bleddyn31 on Wednesday 11 September 24 18:15 BST (UK)

Title: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: bleddyn31 on Wednesday 11 September 24 18:15 BST (UK)
Hello,
I've hit a dead end with my family and I cannot find any records other than a obituary. I'm looking for more information on Elwyn Jake Williams, died June 2009 in Bangor, age 67. All I know is his father, William Williams, lived in Williams Street in Holyhead. His mother was Margaret Roberts. I believe William died in 1986 or 1987, that's what my parents say.
I've asked my grandma Gwyneth but she's losing her ability to retain information due to age, she can only remember names, not dates.

Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 12 September 24 00:55 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat

There is no Elwyn Jake Williams death in 2009 - he is recorded just as Elwyn b 1942

There is no birth in 1941-1943 for an Elwyn Williams with a mmn Roberts

Exactly what kind of info are you looking for?  If you are looking for marriage/children his widow may possibly still be alive & any children will have been born in the 1960’s or later.

Rootschat does not allow the publication of information on living persons to protect their privacy
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: bleddyn31 on Thursday 12 September 24 05:37 BST (UK)
I can send the obituary through, he died when I was young
He was aged 67 when he died in June 2009
My dad was born indeed in the late 60s,
His widow would be my living grandmam, but she can't recollect much and neither can my father, as he was kicked out of Elwyns household in his teens

I'm trying to find any record of my dad's side and can't pinpoint down anything past Elwyn other than name and the year my parents roughly remember Elwyns father dying. My dad doesn't know when William Williams was born and neither does his siblings. I've scouted everywhere and cannot find any records. I can find a record of divorce with my grandmam and Elwyn, but it doesn't tell much at all. I don't even know where Elwyn was born, a lot of haze surrounds but my parents have said tie his father to Llandeusant, and in the last 20 years of his life William lived on Williams Street in Holyhead but I cannot find any record of residence.

The information I am looking for is literally anything that can show where they existed or when, just something to go off of.

Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 12 September 24 08:21 BST (UK)
Was your father an only child?  If he had siblings & you know their whereabouts - have you asked if they can provide any info?

Does the obit name children or a widow other than your grandmother indicating he remarried?

A copy of his death cert will give his full birthdate which could help pinpoint his birth registration.  It will also give some details of the person who reported his death & their address

A copy of the marriage cert to your grandmother will confirm his fathers name but with a surname like Williams it may not be any real help

A long shot but if an undertaker is named in the obit & are still in business & still have records from 2009   - they may agree to pass on your details to whoever arranged the funeral but no guarantees
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: bleddyn31 on Thursday 12 September 24 09:40 BST (UK)
Hello
I've asked all my uncles and they're none the wiser, I ask and they just go "f**k knows". My only hope is to talk to Elwyns sister my great auntie Jean. I hope I can get some information on that side.

So reading his obituary it lists his children I recognize all my uncles, my dad but another child whomsoever I've never heard of. Never mentioned by any of my parents.
I think there was a divorce record somewhere in my research, but it doesn't show a year only my grandma's maiden name.

I hope I havent reached bedrock.






Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 12 September 24 09:44 BST (UK)
Did your uncles have any contact with him?  If not - who arranged the funeral & who reported his death?  Possibly his sister.  She will also have details of parents etc
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: dragonT on Thursday 12 September 24 11:17 BST (UK)
Hi,
Maybe I can help a bit. Most of the information which follows comes from transcriptions of Anglesey BMD certificates and some does not fit with information you already have.

There is a birth registration for Elwyn son of William Williams and Maggie Ann Jones b. 12 Jun 1942, Llanddeusant.
Marriage 7 Nov 1936, Holyhead Registry Office - William Williams, 20, b, agricultural labourer, Cae Bach, Llanddeusant, son of Owen John Williams, farmer and Maggie Ann Jones, 20, s, Penbonc, Llanfugail, dau. of Thomas Jones, agricultural labourer.
I can find birth registration for two of Elwyn's siblings - Llewelyn and Jean.

Deaths registered on Anglesey in 1986/7 for William Williams (no middle name):
17 May 1986 age 63; d.o.b. (from FreeBMD) - 5 Apr 1923
28 Jun 1986 age 85; d.o.b. 18 Feb 1901
19 Sep 1987 age 78; d.o.b. 8 Apr 1909
Note none of these were 20 in 1936.

Birth registration:
William son of Owen John Williams and Jane Thomas 26 Aug 1916, Llanddeusant.
Using this d.o.b. it seems that William Williams' death was registered in Birkenhead:
1987 Birkenhead 37,672, d.o.b. 26AU1916 - on FreeBMD.

If you think this is correct let me know what further information you need.
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Thursday 12 September 24 16:22 BST (UK)
The marriage in 1936 looks like it could be the correct one Dragon T. The couple are in the 1939 register with birth dates 1916. 2 redacted entries. It looks like Margaret/Maggie remarried to a Roberts.

Added: or name change given, dated 1960 to Roberts. This would have been when the register was changed.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/42279703:61596

Possible
Death same birthdate as 1939 Register
Name   Margaret Ann Roberts
Death Age   80
Birth Date   21 Aug 1916
Registration Date   Jun 1997
Registration district   Ynys Mon
Inferred County   Gwynedd
Register Number   35A
District and Subdistrict   8571
Entry Number   64

Welcome to Rootschat Bleddyn  :)

Cas
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Thursday 12 September 24 16:36 BST (UK)
Possible birth reg for William going by birthdate  26 Aug 1916
 

Deleted - see Dragon T above
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Thursday 12 September 24 16:41 BST (UK)
Possible death only one that fits with birthdate with death around 1980 - 1990

Name   William Williams
Death Age   71
Birth Date   26 Aug 1916
Registration Date   Nov 1987
Registration district   Birkenhead
Inferred County   Merseyside
Volume   37
Page   672

Snap - did not read all your post to the bottom Dragon T  ::)

Cas
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Thursday 12 September 24 17:40 BST (UK)
If it is the correct 1939 would check for a remarriage after last child born to couple for Maggie/Margaret. There are some possible in Anglesey registration district.

Not checked for others.

Cas
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: bleddyn31 on Friday 13 September 24 00:52 BST (UK)
A lot of this checks out thank you very much, now just to trace Owen and Jane, who I dont have a clue about other than being told Owen was a rabbit catcher and cobbler from Llanddeusant. Kinda stuck on finding any records of these 2 because I don't have any dates. Asked my father if they have any family records and he nor any other family do.

There was something he told me about his granddad(William) being a product of affair.
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 13 September 24 02:05 BST (UK)
Do you have access to Ancestry ?

Marriage - going from the info Dragon T provided for birth of William Williams in 1916
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/400803%3A62098

Name   Owen John Williams
Marriage Age   23
Birth Date   1879
Marriage Date   28 Nov 1902
Marriage Place   Llanddeusant, Anglesey, Wales
Father   John Williams, small farmer & lab
Spouse   Jane Thomas - father John Thomas, stonemason
Page number   64

1911 - occupation is rabbit catcher, b 1880 same area
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/2360798%3A2353

Possible 1921 free index -
Owen John Williams b1880, Anglesey, Wales living Llanddeusant, Holyhead, Anglesey

To confirm you would need to find William Williams b 1916 in same household as parents

Cas
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: bleddyn31 on Monday 16 September 24 10:59 BST (UK)
I use MyHeritage(they gave me a year
free because I forgot to cancel a membership and couldn't afford it) which is alright but feel like it's catered to Americans a bit more.

So from your last response the information checks out, now I've gotten to Owen Williams, b. 1823 in Llanfigael as my dead end.

Seems as though my dad's patrilineal side stayed a lot working as farmers in Cae Bach after 1830 or so.

Going to Holyhead on Thursday hopefully I can find any more information out.
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: DCB on Monday 16 September 24 12:37 BST (UK)
William Williams is recorded as Willie Williams, aged 4 years and 9 months, born in Llanddeusant, on the 1921 census, with Owen John, Jane, and 5 siblings.

David
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: bleddyn31 on Monday 16 September 24 14:41 BST (UK)
If anyone has access to birth register in Llanfigael 1823 would appreciate it. Can only find 1695-1815 baptisms which is just before Owen's birth in 1823.
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Monday 16 September 24 16:48 BST (UK)
There is this marriage, note his father has surname Owen.

They did name a son Rowland.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/400589:62098

Owen Williams, underage, (under 21) farmer, address Glanygors
Marriage Date   6 Feb 1843
Marriage Place   Llanddeusant, Anglesey, Wales
Father   William Owen, farmer
Spouse   Catherine Williams, widow, full age, address Tyn Y Capel or Cafel -  father Rowland Williams, farmer.
Witness: Owen Roberts - William Hughes

Cas
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Monday 16 September 24 17:07 BST (UK)
1851 family are at Cae Bach

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/235616447/owen-williams

Probate names wife Catherine

Name   Owen Williams
Death Date   21 Apr 1892
Death Place   Anglesey
Probate Date   4 Nov 1892
Probate Registry   Bangor
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Monday 16 September 24 18:35 BST (UK)
Did find this..

Will of farmer William Owen of Glan y gors, parish of Llanfigael. Probate names John Owen, of Glan y gors, farmer, son & sole executor.

Name   William Owen
Death Date   31 Dec 1865
Death Place   Anglesey
Probate Date   19 May 1866
Probate Registry   Bangor

Death registration would probably be in March Q 1866

Possible
OWEN, WILLIAM    age   74  (abt 1792)
GRO Reference: 1866  M Quarter in ANGLESEY  Volume 11B  Page 447
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Monday 16 September 24 19:04 BST (UK)
Ages can be rounded down to nearest 5 over age 15  in 1841.

Wonder if it is linked to the patronymic naming system?

1841
Llanfigael
Address Glanygors
Piece 1361, Book   9, Folio 7, Page number 5

William Owen   45 farmer
Elinor Owen 45
Owen Owen 15
William Owen 9
John Owen 6
Elizabeth Owen 15
Cathrine Owen 2
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Monday 16 September 24 19:32 BST (UK)
Possible ?

As written in transcription, no image

Name   Owen Owens Owen
Gender   Male
Baptism Date   10 Mar 1822
Baptism Place   Llanddeusant,Anglesey,Wales
Father   William Owen
Mother   Ellen
FHL Film Number   104519

Llanddeusant, Anglesey is 2 miles (3 Km) NE of Llanfigael, Anglesey
This is measured directly between the two points 'as the crow flies' ignoring any geographical features such as rivers or hills. (Genuki)

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/AGY/Llanfigael

Cas
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: bleddyn31 on Monday 16 September 24 20:01 BST (UK)
Hmm, how come the last name changes? Is that possible? I'll have to see what information I can get from Elwyn Williams living siblings, see if they have any idea of this.
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: bleddyn31 on Monday 16 September 24 20:09 BST (UK)
Owen Williams says was born in 1823 Llanfigael
Can't find father on record

Next information

Occupation Farmer
Birth of Daughter Catherine Williams 1851
Birth of Son John Williams 1856
1891 Census says residing in Cae Bach, Llanddeusant

Can't find anything to do with a death date
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: bleddyn31 on Monday 16 September 24 20:16 BST (UK)
Owen Williams
marriage to Catherine Williams Feb 6 1843
Llanddeusant

April 21 1892 Death Date, Cae Bach Llanddeusant
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: bleddyn31 on Monday 16 September 24 20:39 BST (UK)
Found father of Owen Williams - William Owen

Found father of Catherine Williams-
Rowland Williams

No dates as of yet
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Monday 16 September 24 21:04 BST (UK)
From reply #16 today the info is on Owen.

I only follow records..linking names and addresses if possible to hopefully connect generations.

Would read the thread.

Good luck with your search

Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: DCB on Tuesday 17 September 24 10:19 BST (UK)
In case Glan-y-gors is of significance, it can be seen on this map, half way between Llanfigael and Llanddeusant.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/207349346

Also here as Glan Gors: https://www.bing.com/maps/?cp=53.32671%7E-4.502649&lvl=15.7&style=s

It can be seen on Google Street View, but only from distance.

A couple of burials: Ellen Owen 70 of Glan-y-gors on 7th April 1864 and William Owen 74 on 3rd January 1866

David
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: bleddyn31 on Tuesday 17 September 24 22:47 BST (UK)
Fantastic DCB, those burials add up.

I think as I've sorted Elwyns side, I'll start a new post trying to find more about these Owens if I hit a brick wall, don't want to spam this place, but I'm very enthusiastic about finding out more at the same time.

My next port of call is to discover more about my nana Gwyneth's side before she cannot recall any information whatsoever.

To everyone who delved, thank you so much, this really means a lot to me.
Title: Re: Elwyn Williams of Bangor, father William Williams mother Margaret Roberts
Post by: DCB on Wednesday 18 September 24 11:09 BST (UK)
There are some trees on Ancestry re Owen Williams and Catherine, but nobody has the parents of Owen. Interestingly, two of their children, William and John, had the surname of Owens, as on the 1861 census.

They also have pictures of their graves, which can be seen on Findagrave:-
https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2023/134/235616447_536f54ec-1aad-4bbc-95fb-2c4303cd061a.jpeg

David

P.S. One tree does have William Owen and Ellinor as the parents of Owen.