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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: RW1 on Sunday 08 September 24 10:47 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am investigating Mary Catherine Edmonds/Edmunds, who I believe first appears on the UK Census in 1861 at the "Eight Bells", Carisbrook Street, Carisbrook, as Mary C Stephens, "Daughter" of Mary Stephens, widow of Charles Stephens. Also there are Mary's daughter, Emily Stephens, and her son, Benjamin Joseph Edmonds Stephens.
I can't find Mary Catherine in 1871, although her "mother" (Mary) and "brother" (Benjamin) are with Mary's new husband, Henry Denness (actually shown as Dennis) at Niton.
As Mary Catherine Edmunds, she married William (James) Wall in 1875 and then appears as a visitor, "Mary C Wall" with Henry and Mary Denness at Weard Cottage, Niton, at the time of the 1881 Census.
As Catherine Mary Wall, she appears on the 1921 Census (with William) at 2 Greenham Court Cottages, Greenham, Newbury. Her age is 58 years and seven months.
This age would take us back to November 1852 in Carisbrook for a birth and there is indeed a birth of "Mary Catherine Edmonds" on 25 November 1852 at Carisbrook (no father given). However, her mother is Rosena Ann Edmonds, not Mary. This is confirmed by the baptism, although the birthdate given is 9 November and her mother is "Rossanna", and Mary Catherine is confirmed as illegitimate.
So who is Rosena, and how does she fit in with the Edmonds family? There is an "Ann Edmonds" aged 7 living with Charles and Mary Stephens and Mary's mother, Hannah Edmonds, at the time of the 1841 Census. Could this be Rosena Ann, perhaps an illegitimate child of Mary? This would make Mary Catherine Edmonds, the granddaughter of Mary, rather than the daughter?
Mary has already been married (in 1837) to John Smith and had a daughter, Edith. I assume John died before Mary's marriage to Charles Stephens.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
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Edith Smith
Baptism 4 Jul 1837 St Mary, Hampshire
Parish as it Appears Carisbrooke
Father John Smith, labourer Mother Mary abode Bowcombe
Mary Edmunds & John Smith married 14 May 1837 St Mary, Carisbrook
Where is daughter Edith Smith in 1841?
Mary Edmunds
Baptism 25 Sep 1814 St Mary, Hampshire
Parish as it Appears Carisbrook in the Isle of Wight
Father Joseph, labourer Mother Hannah abode Bowcombe
There are bpts for a Harriott 1813 & Benjamin 1814 in Carisbrook same parents
Mary Smith
Marriage 16 May 1841 St. Mary, Carisbrooke, Hampshire
Father Joseph Edmunds
Spouse Charles Stephens
no image
Not found anything for Rosena
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For info…. in case it helps anyone else looking
looks as if Edith Smith birth registered as Edmunds
EDMUNDS, EDITH -
GRO Reference: 1837 D Quarter in ISLE OF WIGHT Volume 08 Page 186
Emily Stephens
Baptism 9 Oct 1842 Carisbrooke: St Mary, Hampshire
Father Charles, labourer Mother Mary
STEPHENS, EMILY mmn EDMUNDS
GRO Reference: 1842 D Quarter in ISLE OF WIGHT Volume 08 Page 217
Mary Catharine Edmonds
Denomination Primitive Methodist
Birth 9 Nov 1852 Baptism 23 Jan 1853 Baptism Place England
Mother Rossanna Edmonds
Circuit or Register Isle of Wight Circuit
EDMONDS, MARY CATHERINE -
GRO Reference: 1853 M Quarter in ISLE OF WIGHT Volume 02B Page 459
Benjamin Joseph Edmonds Stephens
Baptism Date 12 Jul 1857 Carisbrooke: St Mary, Hampshire
Father Charles, labourer Mother Mary
STEPHENS, BENJAMIN JOSEPH EDMUNDS mmn EDMUNDS
GRO Reference: 1857 S Quarter in ISLE OF WIGHT Volume 02B Page 452
Added
I am investigating Mary Catherine Edmonds/Edmunds, who I believe first appears on the UK Census in 1861 at the "Eight Bells", Carisbrook Street, Carisbrook, as Mary C Stephens, "Daughter" of Mary Stephens, widow of Charles Stephens.
Also there are Mary's daughter, Emily Stephens, and her son, Benjamin Joseph Edmonds Stephens.
As Mary Catherine Edmunds, she married William (James) Wall in 1875 and then appears as a visitor, "Mary C Wall" with Henry and Mary Denness at Weard Cottage, Niton, at the time of the 1881 Census.
As Catherine Mary Wall, she appears on the 1921 Census (with William) at 2 Greenham Court Cottages, Greenham, Newbury. Her age is 58 years and seven months.
Is there a father named on Mary Catherine Edmunds 1875 marriage certificate?
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Where is daughter Edith Smith in 1841?
Possibly in Brixton (Brighstone) in the south of the Isle of Wight, with William and Esther Smith - relations of her father?
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Is there a father named on Mary Catherine Edmunds 1875 marriage certificate?
I don't have that. The marriage is not on the IoW Family History Database nor the IoW Victorian Marriage Registers pdf.
I could order from GRO.
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The marriage is not on the IoW Family History Database
Yes it is:
1875 William WALL and Mary Catherine EDMUNDS at the Congregational Chapel, High Street, Ventnor (RO21/179)
Nell
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Mary Catharine Edmonds
Denomination Primitive Methodist
Birth 9 Nov 1852 Baptism 23 Jan 1853 Baptism Place England
Mother Rossanna Edmonds
Circuit or Register Isle of Wight Circuit
Not found a Methodist baptism for Rossanna Edmonds she must be on the 1851 census, she may have married after 1852
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The marriage is not on the IoW Family History Database
Yes it is:
1875 William WALL and Mary Catherine EDMUNDS at the Congregational Chapel, High Street, Ventnor (RO21/179)
Nell
Not on the ones I've seen that give the full date and father's details?
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Mary Catharine Edmonds
Denomination Primitive Methodist
Birth 9 Nov 1852 Baptism 23 Jan 1853 Baptism Place England
Mother Rossanna Edmonds
Circuit or Register Isle of Wight Circuit
Not found a Methodist baptism for Rossanna Edmonds she must be on the 1851 census, she may have married after 1852
On Mary Catherine's birth certificate she's Rosena Ann.
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Not on the ones I've seen that give the full date and father's details?
Sorry, I don't think any of the IoW indexes give that information. I misunderstood your comment :-[ and thought you meant that you couldn't find the actual registration, which is as above.
I haven't come across any transcriptions that are available online for this particular non-conformist chapel.
Nell
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Mary Catharine Edmonds
Denomination Primitive Methodist
Birth 9 Nov 1852 Baptism 23 Jan 1853 Baptism Place England
Mother Rossanna Edmonds
Circuit or Register Isle of Wight Circuit
Not found a Methodist baptism for Rossanna Edmonds she must be on the 1851 census, she may have married after 1852
On Mary Catherine's birth certificate she's Rosena Ann.
Does it give an address and occupation for her mother?
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Not on the ones I've seen that give the full date and father's details?
Sorry, I don't think any of the IoW indexes give that information. I misunderstood your comment :-[ and thought you meant that you couldn't find the actual registration, which is as above.
I haven't come across any transcriptions that are available online for this particular non-conformist chapel.
Nell
There is some information giving dates and fathers, but not for that chapel, it would seem. Thank you for the location. And apologies for my rather non-specific comment regarding the IoWFH.
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Mary Catharine Edmonds
Denomination Primitive Methodist
Birth 9 Nov 1852 Baptism 23 Jan 1853 Baptism Place England
Mother Rossanna Edmonds
Circuit or Register Isle of Wight Circuit
Not found a Methodist baptism for Rossanna Edmonds she must be on the 1851 census, she may have married after 1852
On Mary Catherine's birth certificate she's Rosena Ann.
Does it give an address and occupation for her mother?
Rosena Ann Edmonds Mother Carisbrooke.
No occupation or anything further
Sorry, I've been misspelling Carisbrooke.
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Rosena Ann Edmonds Mother Carisbrooke.
No occupation or anything further
Sorry, I've been misspelling Carisbrooke.
Only found a Rosena with surname Leary in Carisbrooke ???
1851 census
Rosena Leary age 18 born Newport I of WT
inmate in the House Of Industry Or Workhouse
Amend - She in Institution name House Of Industry Isle Of Wight 1841 age 8
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Thanks for all your replies.
Do you think she might be the Ann Edmonds, 7, in 1841? With Mary and Charles Stephens and Mary's mother Hannah?
I don't know who she is or what happened to her?
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For info…. in case it helps anyone else looking
looks as if Edith Smith birth registered as Edmunds
EDMUNDS, EDITH -
GRO Reference: 1837 D Quarter in ISLE OF WIGHT Volume 08 Page 186
That is not correct.
The above birth record is Edith Edmunds - born on 17 December 1837 at Shanklin; father: William Edmunds, Labourer; mother: Jane Holland (not shown as mmn on GRO, just shown as "-").
Mary's daughter (with Charles Smith), Edith Smith, was Christened on 4 July 1837 - civil registration began on 1 July. I too thought the above was Edith Smith, with confusion over the requirements at the very early stage of registering a birth. Unfortunately, it's someone else!
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For info…. in case it helps anyone else looking
looks as if Edith Smith birth registered as Edmunds
EDMUNDS, EDITH -
GRO Reference: 1837 D Quarter in ISLE OF WIGHT Volume 08 Page 186
That is not correct.
The above birth record is Edith Edmunds - born on 17 December 1837 at Shanklin; father: William Edmunds, Labourer; mother: Jane Holland (not shown as mmn on GRO, just shown as "-").
Mary's daughter (with Charles Smith), Edith Smith, was Christened on 4 July 1837 - civil registration began on 1 July. I too thought the above was Edith Smith, with confusion over the requirements at the very early stage of registering a birth. Unfortunately, it's someone else!
Did you mean Mary’s daughter (with John Smith)?
Edith Smith
Baptism 4 Jul 1837 St Mary, Hampshire
Parish as it Appears Carisbrooke
Father John Smith, labourer Mother Mary abode Bowcombe
Mary Edmunds & John Smith married 14 May 1837 St Mary, Carisbrook
As the mmn was left blank I thought perhaps it was Mary Edmunds daughter born before her marriage to John Smith
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Yes, sorry
John Smith - first husband;
Charles Stephens - second husband.