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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: MrSaunders on Friday 06 September 24 22:55 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I'm trying to solve an old family mystery where reputedly the surname was changed deliberately. A male descendant has completed a Y-DNA test and the surname match was "Colenso" so I believe that is the original surname. The family originated from Cornwall in the late 19th century. Working backwards, the most recent male that I don't have a birth record for is:
William Williams (b. 12 October 1897 Cornwall d. 1989 Barnet)
The DOB comes from the 1939 register.
He married twice. I think the first marriage was Harriet Harrington (1918 Luton)
I know the second marriage was to Rose Marie Waldren (16 Dec 1923 Monken Hadley, Middlesex)
I haven't got any certain matches on early census records and I do wonder if he was the one who changed his name from Colenso to Williams. Any help greatly appreciated!
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Who were his parents? What was his mothers maiden name
How have you connected somebody with the surname Williams to the surname Colenso?
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Freebmd has 3 William Williams births in Cornwall in the Dec qtr 1897 - all have middle names & none have a mmn Colenso. No birth under Colenso in Dec 1897
Lots of births for surname Colenso in Cornwall on freebmd
What's his fathers name & occupation on his 2 marriage certs?
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Only the banns for the 1923 marriage are on Ancestry
Have you seen this tree on Ancestry - it mentions Thomas Colenso as the father of William. Tree owner is Saunders - is it your tree?
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/9942427/person/-720301430/facts
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Hi Carol,
Yes that tree is mine :)
Thanks for reminding me about the marriage certificate. The 1923 marriage that I am sure about shows the following:
Name: William Williams
Age: 26
Status: Widower
Occ: Engine Fitter
Res: The Gatehouse, Monken Hadley
Father: Thomas Williams (deceased)
Father Occ: Marine Master
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Your tree shows William's father as Thomas Colenso - where did you get that info from?
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Lots of the surname on Cornwall OPC
https://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/
No baptism for William Williams that match
Cas
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Hi CaroleW,
I named Thomas as a Colenso as that is my current thinking. I know from the Y-DNA that somewhere in the male line the surname was Colenso. Family story was that "Williams" was picked at random from a phonebook but not sure which male that was. The "phonebook" clue provides a window since British phone books were published from 1880 onwards, the year after the public telephone service was introduced to the UK.
Thank you!
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In 1939 he is living in Bedfordshire. Which document shows his birthplace as Cornwall? Do you have him on the 1921 census confirming his birthplace?
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I have a newspaper article which says he was brought up in West Ham - so now I'm not so sure about his birth location :(
The Colenso family hail from Cornwall (see https://colensostudy.id.au/Early%20Colenso%20History.htm) so that was my assumption that he was born there. It might be the generation before noting his father, Thomas is listed a "Marine Master" on the 1923 marriage certificate.
I haven't been able to find him in the 1921 census yet.
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Received the first marriage certificate today:
25th May 1918
William WILLIAMS Age 21 Bachelor Gas & Water Fitter 133 Townsend Rd Southall Father: Thomas WILLIAMS Father Occupation: Retired Captain Merchant Service
Harriett HARRINGTON Age 23 Spinster Munitions Works Hand 46 Park Road West Luton Father: William HARRINGTON Father Occupation: Night Watchman
So in 1918 Thomas Williams is alive (this marriage) and by 1923 Thomas Williams is deceased (second marriage).
Assuming Merchant Service is Merchant Navy, I found https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/merchant-seamen-serving-since-1918/ but the records seem to start at 1918 which might not be helpful if Thomas Williams was already retired. Any suggestions gratefully received.
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Quite interesting, in my family tree, which isnt fabulous, I have my Mary Colenso marrying a William Williams , sT Georges church Barrow in Furness in 1888 Mary's surname was noted as Callenso , Mary and William are together in 1891 , Barrow In Furness,Lancashire it states William Williams, aged 25 born Bilston Staffs , obviously the Colenso Callenso family are from Cornwall , I have lots of records for them ,