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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: ReeseG on Thursday 05 September 24 23:21 BST (UK)
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Hello,
The photo below is of a Given Name and Surname. He is the Father of the Bride at a wedding in 1856 in England.
I am struggling to decipher the given name, any help would be much appreciated. Thank you.
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Rowing Pond?
Is this his death?
Deaths Sep 1867
POND Rowing 77 Downham 4b 233
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Wow - yes. This fellow is an Innkeeper which tracks! Thank you!
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There is definitely a man of that name in Norfolk. There is a daughter Sarah in 1841 any connection to the bride?
Welcome to Rootschat :)
Cas
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Maybe not, as she does not seem to marry.
Would agree with Annie, it looks like Rowing Pond.
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Yes, I agree. It looks like Rowling Pond
Rowing POND marriage 30 May 1817 Wretton Norfolk to Elizabeth JACKSON
Children:- Mary 1819, Elizabeth 1820, Sarah 1822, Thomas 1830, John 1832, Marie 1837
1841 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M791-9WW
1851 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG6W-PL8
1861 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7NG-6R6
Rowing Jetty Pond baptised 1790 Weating Norfolk
Son of Mary ROWING and Thomas POND
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Amazing!
The bride is Mary Pond, she married William Fitzjohn at St. Leonard's in Shoreditch. I am trying to find their child(ren) to see if they are my great-grandfather's parents as I know that they are called William and Mary.
My great-grandfather was John Fitzjohn, and in 1881 at St Mary's Orphanage. I think his birth name was William and had a brother James as those names are listed in care in 1871.
Thank you so much!
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Other thread, looking for info on Home Children. Sadly unless confirmed by other sources, the parent's first names may not necessarily be correct. Have you a source for the names Wm. & Mary?
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=885554.0
The Fitzjohn/Pond marriage took place at St Leonard's, Shoreditch which is an Anglican church. This doesn't necessarily rule them out entirely, as perhaps only one spouse was Catholic.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:84KX-ZNZM
A Frederick, with mother Pond ( the only result for Pond maiden name, sadly)
GRO Reference: 1862 D Quarter in DOWNHAM UNION Volume 04B Page 371
FreeBMD has an Annie Louisa Fitzjohn - Birth registered March Quarter 1861
Whitechapel Whitechapel Vol. 1c p.410 but sadly no results on GRO!
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/
There's also a death registered for a Mary Fitzjohn age 40 Whitechapel Vol. 1c p.305
If this turns out to be your Mary the father may have put the children into care.
Oddly...Had I not seen the Pond marriage online, I'd have looked into the Caton surname - on the same result as Pond...as there is only one GRO result for a James (thought to be brother of Wm/John)
1865 June Quarter WHITECHAPEL Vol. 01C p.386
But surname Caton doesn't seem to come up with a Fitzjohn marriage except that match disproven above?
I see that someone else has claimed a different couple to be your ancestors...even though the dates, & other info don't match up...
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LH1W-CHT
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That Downham Union result? Would that be the workhouse in Norfolk? This makes sense & doesn't make sense...all at the same time...but just a coincidence or your couple elsewhere?
Fredrick on census, family no longer in a workhouse (brother was also b. Downham Union)
Parents are William & Mary so is this the couple from that marriage or have I lost the plot?
1871 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFN5-P6Y
1881 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q278-N4JG
adding: This Mary may have been too old to bear a child in 1871, although it is not impossible...
Age, if correct does not match marriage.
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Hi JJ. I believe that you are correct with Caton. I found what I believe to be James’ birth record and the mother is listed as Caton. It seems to correspond to the death records and to the boys admission dates to Whitechapel Workhouse.
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But as you'll note... there is no record of a corresponding Caton/FitzJohn marriage. I suppose it could also have been an out of wedlock birth with a claim to a father. Nothing solid there, in any case. Plus other things seem to be missing, such as the sister Annie Louisa.
Do you have any BHC records from the British side?
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I found a marriage between James Fitzjohn and Mary Ann Katon on April 25, 1864. I think it's probably correct.
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Good find... James Fitzjohn - Mary Ann Katen may turn out to be the father for young James
Marriage 25 April 1864 Whitechapel, Middlesex, Eng
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6ZLN-M5WS
There is a death Sep 1870 Fitzjohn James 37 Whitechapel 1c 263
But all still hard to prove without more information to make the link...
Adding: Also found these deaths!
Fitzjohn Mary 40 / Fitzjohn Mary 0 Whitechapel Dist. vol. 1c p.305
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Note* Forgive me for saying earlier that Annie Louisa was a potential sister. I must have put something in wrong on the database, as looked again & her mother was surname Mason.
The last 2 finds look as though the boys may have lost both parents & are orphaned...
However, back then, I'd only looked up to 1871 when the lads were put into the home...But now see there is a marriage Sept Quarter 1872 for a James Fitzjohn Whitechapel district...
So it may turn out that they could have been abandoned by a parent. (as, sadly most BHC actually were) We may not be able to solve the mystery of parents.
What information did you or other members of your family get from the Mile End institution that James & William a.k.a. John were in???
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The 1872 marriage is of a bachelor aged 23, father John. So think it's a different person.
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Thanks for that Mabel Bagshawe...We are looking for a British Home child - brother to ReeseG's GRGrandfather, both of whom were shipped to Canada as young boys.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=885554.msg7595186
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The James Fitzjohn-Mary Katen/Caton couple look like a good prospect for parents of the two boys given their marriage location and apparent deaths in Whitechapel. The birth cert for James and death certs for James and Mary would hopefully connect the dots to the little boys in the Workhouse in the 1871 census.
I wonder if when John married Matilda he may have named invented parents? He appears to marry a second time in 1932 and parents are down as not remembered in this record.
PB
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Hi PB, I wondered if he made up his parents names as well. But I found Mary's death cert and the boys dropoff to the workhouse and they both reference the same address. 1 and 2 Cross Street, Whitechapel, so I am hopeful that I am on the right track.
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That's super news, ReeseG! At least you can confirm the correct father for now, by getting the death cert for James as well!
I've been wondering about the church James & Mary Anne were married in. Was it Catholic? Just wondering if the boys home gave them their religious denomination, or their parents?
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I see that it was Catholic... then changed to C.O.E. after the reformation...but appealed to other denominations towards its end (demolition) due to a caring ministry who cared about all denominations.
adding: Some weird stories in the long history of the church ministry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Mary_Matfelon
Could I please ask who the informants were on the death of Mary? Was there any other information on the certificates you've purchased, other than what you have disclosed?