RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Zaphod99 on Thursday 05 September 24 13:57 BST (UK)
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A mass grave in Oldham containing more than 300 bodies, including babies and children, has been uncovered.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mn714gr1no
So many people must have been complicit.
Zaph
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At least they were buried - not just "disposed of".
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A relative of mine had a still born child about 1946 ish, I managed to get the certificate by getting I touch with the GRO but that was in relatively recent times.
A sad story but as BB said at least they were buried.
LM
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I have to admit that I didn't realise, until now, that stillborn births had to be registered. :'( :'(
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There is a separate register apparently held by the GRO, I did have details of a burial but not the actual death certificate so perhaps I was one step ahead and knew something about the child.
I don't know when this register started, I am sure someone on RC might know but it is worth bearing in mind.
LM
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I'm sorry, I don't feel outrage. Just great surprise that it has happened relatively recently. Nor would I wish to be associated with any witch-hunt which might follow.
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By 'uncovered' do they mean that a formerly unknown mass grave has been discovered or that information about the mass grave has just been discovered?
From the linked article
It also suggests records and documents about the burials should be made more accessible and digitalised.
The burial records for Royton Cemetery are freely available on Family Search, including the stillbirth burial register https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/1494616?availability=Family%20History%20Library
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There were many good things, and people, in mediaeval times!!
I'd just like to point that out please...... ;) :)
Melbell
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There is a separate register apparently held by the GRO, I did have details of a burial but not the actual death certificate so perhaps I was one step ahead and knew something about the child.
I don't know when this register started, I am sure someone on RC might know but it is worth bearing in mind.
LM
1927, according to the late Guy Etchells. He made a Historic Still Births register which used to be available for £4 from his website (or as a CDROM)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=747965.msg5954965#msg5954965
The archived page below still has a Paypal link but I doubt it will work. It doesn't include any entries from the Civil register which is closed, and can only be consulted for certificates by parents or surviving siblings if both parents are deceased.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200221211802/http://anguline.co.uk/stillbirths.html
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I have mixed feelings about this. If a mass grave containing my child or sibling had been uncovered, I think I would find that very disturbing, and may prefer the burial place not to be revealed. :-\
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Not sure if still birth babies parents get the offer of how they would liked their loved one to rest, a cousin was told her baby would be put in with a female, they chose that, their choice and no one can criticise them for what they decide to do at such a sad time.
LM
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Not got all the details of this but quite a while back part of Philips’Park Cemetery
was dug up to accommodate the revised plans for M/c City Etihad Stadium .
Part was a Cemetery for new borns ,and stillbirths.
Just behind the Right side gate house as you enter past the office ,behind the lovely war memorial.
I am not exactly sure but people were upset as the promises made re respect and reburial etc seem not to have been kept .
I think also part of the “ Paupers” burial area too ,if so it is possible the grave if one of the heroes of “Rorke’s Drift” —- Zulu, was also disturbed.
He was a poor man and had sold his medals.
I know parents were very upset as now their babies were in a mass grave.
I have searched but no exact report found as yet ,I only get The Manchester Evening News on Saturdays as it has a good puzzle section , and this was some years ago .
I can remember one woman on the T.V. Northern News was, quite understandably, really upset as seemingly bulldozers were used!
Not much respect there.
Viktoria.
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My mum had twins in 1972 and they survived for 14 days, after alot of research, i have been informed that they are buried in area 575 at philips park cemetery. With other babies. My parents did not no what happened to them. It must have been devastating for them. Sadly my parents are no longer with us. So they never got to know.
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My mum had twins in 1972 and they survived for 14 days, after alot of research, i have been informed that they are buried in area 575 at philips park cemetery. With other babies. My parents did not no what happened to them. It must have been devastating for them. Sadly my parents are no longer with us. So they never got to know.
Update. I have found the grave of the twins and they are buried with 2 adults and 49 other babies.
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The Stillbirths Register is not online, and not viewable by the public UNLESS a close link can be proved.
I went through all this some 10 or 11 years ago.
I needed the Stillbirth certificate of my mother's twin sister - trying to prove to Guinness World Records of our claim to "Most Successive Generations Of Twins" We were successful!
My findings were checked by a Professional Genealogist. :D
And accepted by GWR.
Those wanting a Stillbirth Certificate must first contact GRO at Southport and explain the reason for wanting same.
10/11 years ago,my first contact was by phone.
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There was a section on the BBC about this man who was searching for his stillborn daughter’s grave.
The programme included an interview with him where he stated that there is no record of the still birth and no record of a grave.
It was only by chance that he found the record that gave him the sex of his stillborn child.
I’d hate to think how parents today are now treated by the constantly underfire NHS is cases like this.
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In the 1860s and 70s my gt-grandparents had 10 children, 5 of whom were stillborn. My grandfather was the only boy to survive. Apparently the older sisters were sent to the cemetery each time with the remains of these children "in a cigar box", according to family legend, and were instructed to ask the sexton to place these stillborn babies in a grave along with someone being buried. I have a scrap of paper on which the dates of birth and the names of these babies were written by my gt-grandfather, but we do not know in which graves they were buried. It was sad to see that each little one had been given one or two forenames, so recorded as a person in the family's minds.
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Oh gosh, sad times, I do wonder if family had the means for what could be called a proper funeral or burial.
They were recorded with kindness having been given names, I am convinced my grandmother must have had a still born child, it is recorded on 1911 children she had 1 more child that was registered or baptised, my father knew the names of all of his siblings who were born and registered, 1 wasn't, unfortunately the family Bible disappeared.
LM
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This was common practice, most cemeteries had a public grave for stillbirths and infants. My Gran had a stillborn boy in 1950( no 14 of 15) she dressed him and laid him on her dressing table for the siblings to see him before the council collected him. He was buried in the public grave which was open for 18 years between 1937--1955 it held all the stillbirths and 21 infants. Previously Gran lost 2 boys aged 5 & 7 hours in 1934 & 1936, they were buried in a mass grave in a corner of the churchyard for free by the parish but the churchyard was closed when the council cemetery opened and they charged £2 in 1950. Grans sister had a stillborn girl in 1941 and she was also in the same grave. Different times.
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I do find it all very sad but nowadays parents have a choice, as late as about 1980 my cousin had a still born, she arranged for her to be buried with a woman, she and her husband didn't attend, I have no idea if she even knows where she is exactly, thank God there is a choice.
LM
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A 3x great grandfather of mine was a Sexton, he kept a record of burials in a notebook, he buried stillborn and babies who died shortly after birth in coffins with women. He described the babies position in the coffins and where they were in the churchyard. That was in the late 1700s, I wonder if the parents ever visited the graves.
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Our son and his wife's little daughter was born at 28 weeks and survived for just 4 minutes. Because she had lived for those few minutes her birth and death had to be registered and a funeral had to be held. She is buried in our local churchyard -space for her little grave was found among the older graves. A small plaque reads "A minute in our arms, a lifetime in our hearts". Sadly they have had no more children. We were all able to hold her for a minute, too, and will never forget this.