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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 14:11 BST (UK)

Title: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 14:11 BST (UK)
Hello everyone, i have come across a problem/puzzle........I have Robert Laurison born 1889, to John Laurison and Sarah jane Laurison nee gibson.  Robert Laurison, rifleman was killed in action 1916, royal irish rifles, 6th bn....his parents as stated             However, I have a death notice for Robert Laurison, born 1889, from Laurelvale, same parents, same siblings dying in British Columbia in 1937.............how can this be possible?  i am trying to post the newspaper clipping, having no luck so far.
kind regards from Heather
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 01 September 24 14:13 BST (UK)
Where did you find the information about him kia in 1916
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 14:15 BST (UK)
I just googled Robert laurison rifleman laurelvale, and he came up.
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 14:18 BST (UK)
The newspaper for his death  is Portadown times.......24th December, 1937........but it wont let me load it on here
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: KGarrad on Sunday 01 September 24 14:25 BST (UK)
Commonwealth War Graves Commission
809 Rifleman Robert Laurison16thh Bn Royal Irish Rifles
Died 2nd July 1916
Thiepval Memorial
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 14:32 BST (UK)
 little bit of newspaper death
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 01 September 24 14:32 BST (UK)
Ireland's Memorial Records 1914-1918

Laurison, Robert
Reg No. 809
Rank Rifleman
Royal Irish Rifles, 16th Batallion
Killed in action, France, 2nd July 1916
Born Laurelvale, Co Armagh

Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 14:34 BST (UK)
sorry it wont let me attach the newspaper article,  but its the same person
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 14:38 BST (UK)
same person
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 14:40 BST (UK)
The rest of the article above is same family.....he was 48 when he died in  british columbia, been there 34 years...........  how can this be?
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 01 September 24 15:03 BST (UK)
A 16 year old Robert Laurison left Londonderry for Montreal 14th July 1905.  Occupation Farmer has been dittoed against all the names on the page.
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: AlanBoyd on Sunday 01 September 24 15:06 BST (UK)
Rosie 99 has beat me to it, but here is my version with comparisons of dates.

At FindMyPast there is a record from 1905 of a Robert Laurison, age 16 [1889], farmer, sailing from Londonderry, ship Tunisian, and bound for Montreal.

The newspaper article from 1937 about the death of RL in Canada says that he was born 48 years ago [1889] and that he was resident for 34 years [1903].
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: JenB on Sunday 01 September 24 15:09 BST (UK)
What documentation have you got about the Robert Laurison who appears on the CWGC site?
I can't find anything (so far) that gives his age or parentage?
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 15:15 BST (UK)
hope this works
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 15:16 BST (UK)
again
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: AlanBoyd on Sunday 01 September 24 15:20 BST (UK)
The CWG record for Robert Laurison d 22/7/1916 has him as RIR, Rfn. 809

The medal rolls index has Robert Laurison RIR Pte. number 16/809 but the card is annotated 'see Laurison Joseph x'

It’s unclear what this ‘see Joseph’ annotation means, but there does seem to be some sort of a mix-up.
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: JenB on Sunday 01 September 24 15:24 BST (UK)
Heather, I see that the information on Findagrave has been added by you.
But what primary evidence do you have about the age and parentage of Robert on which you based your information on Findagrave?
There is no age or parentage given on the CWGC site.
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: AlanBoyd on Sunday 01 September 24 15:30 BST (UK)
Following on from my reply #15, I have found the medal card for Joseph Laurison. It confirms the number, 16/809 and says KIA. It is annotated "see Robert x" and in the 'Action taken' field it says

Corr. initial 'R.' (Robert.) see x @ [??]"

And I now realise that the two cards occur consecutively in the record.

My inference is that the record was intended to reflect that the card completed for Joseph Laurison was supposed to relate to Robert Laurison, but why didn’t they simply correct the Joseph Laurison card (which has more detail of medals)? As I said before, the record is confusing.
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: AlanBoyd on Sunday 01 September 24 15:37 BST (UK)
my final contribution I think:

The list of recipients of the ‘1914-1915 Star’ for the Royal Irish Rifles (entitlements granted in 1919) does not list a Robert Laurison, but it does list Joseph Laurison, Rifleman 16/809, K. in A. 2/7/16.
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 15:45 BST (UK)
To Jen B,  i have/had Roberts birth from irish genealogy, but cant find it........also 1901 census for laurelvale, he is there with his family............have all the familys certificates, but cant find them, they be packed away somewhere............. He had a sister annabel and brother fred who also went to nanaimo
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 15:49 BST (UK)
Yes, very confusing Alan,  indeed
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 01 September 24 15:52 BST (UK)
It looks from Alans posts that the one who died in 1916 is not Robert Laurison but Joseph Laurison.   

Jen mentioned that you had possibly submitted the information to findagrave, if so it does need amending which I think only you can do.  :-\
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 16:00 BST (UK)
No, i did not submit the information to find a grave,  this info was on google and on ancestry......he is on other war memorials on ancestry as well,  i have just been searching for him, to see how this situation has come about.
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 01 September 24 16:03 BST (UK)
Quote
.also 1901 census for laurelvale, he is there with his family............have all the familys certificates, but cant find them, they be packed away somewhere............. He had a sister annabel and brother fred who also went to nanaimo

Robert Laurison (age 12)- there's a brother Fred in the household but not Annabel.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Mullahead/Laurelvale__Village_/1020862/
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 16:05 BST (UK)
annabel was gone married in scotland then went to america with husband samuel lawson
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 16:06 BST (UK)
Battle of SOMME Roll of honor
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 01 September 24 16:06 BST (UK)
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/12459297/robert-laurison
Originally Created by: International Wargraves Photography Project [2005]
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: JenB on Sunday 01 September 24 16:08 BST (UK)
No, i did not submit the information to find a grave,  this info was on google and on ancestry......he is on other war memorials on ancestry as well,  i have just been searching for him, to see how this situation has come about.

My apologies, I misread what is on findagrave. I see you had left a note there in 2020.
But the Findagrave record is annotated with the names of his parents, which do not appear on the CWGC record ( unless I’ve missed something)
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/12459297/robert-laurison
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 16:10 BST (UK)
this one
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 16:11 BST (UK)
ooops sorry ignore that please
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 16:12 BST (UK)
robert is on that eddies extracts, but i dont know what i did,  sorry
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 01 September 24 16:15 BST (UK)
https://eddiesextracts.com/rohsdgw/royalirishrifles/ririflesbat16.html

Really doesn't matter how many times something incorrect is posted or written down. In this case Alan Boyd has given information which seems to explain some of the confusion.
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: JenB on Sunday 01 September 24 16:22 BST (UK)
robert is on that eddies extracts,

That doesn’t mean it’s correct!
If I’ve understood correctly it seems that there was a mistake made on the original record cards which has resulted in the error being perpetuated in numerous other records.
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 01 September 24 16:28 BST (UK)
Exactly, Jen. Eddie has been carefully researching records for many years but at the top of that page says
"The information presented here I have transcribed from "Soldiers Died in the Great War" and have added extra columns to try and give a breakdown of each man's county and country of birth were possible. I have also enhanced the data with information extracted from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC.org). Where a difference in Surname, Forename, Rank or Service number occurred the information from the CWGC has been put in brackets i.e. SDGW (CWGC).
While every attempt has been made to ensure the accuracy of this transcription, there are errors in both the original text and on CWGC.org. If you have any information regarding any errors here (or indeed any information which may be relevant) I would be glad to hear from you with a view to amending this list."
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 01 September 24 16:33 BST (UK)
That is a shame that you did not post it on findagrave as the information on his parents could have been put right, never mind  :)

I don't suppose it is possible to remove the mention of him in the box with your poppy,  I think that you can delete it if logged in.  Removing mention of the name Robert would help with any confusion in the future.
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 01 September 24 16:33 BST (UK)


Robert Laurison (age 12)- there's a brother Fred in the household but not Annabel.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Mullahead/Laurelvale__Village_/1020862/

Fred and Isabella Laurison and family - 1931 Canada census - Nanaimo
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Home/Record?app=census&IdNumber=85974814&ecopy=e011772008


Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 16:36 BST (UK)
I thank everyone,  I will have fresh eyes tommorow to try and track down the correct Robert..........please excuse my writing and grammar at times, i have auto immune conditions and sometimes its hard to type............tommorow i will get back to this........kind regards from Heather
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: AlanBoyd on Sunday 01 September 24 16:36 BST (UK)
Leaving to one side all of the evident confusion about the record of the war death, I think we have to accept that the newspaper article should take pride of place: clearly, the family were consulted, or possibly initiated the article, otherwise it would not have contained all of those family names. The family weren’t puzzled by his death in Canada, so there is no reason to think that he died during WWI.
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: polarbear on Sunday 01 September 24 16:39 BST (UK)
It looks like the Robert who died in WW1 may not be the Robert born 1889.

If you have access, Fold3 has a pension card for a Robert Laurison with the same regimental number that lists wife Lucinda and 4 children. Death date matches.

There is a marriage in the Ireland Marriage Index in 1901 of a Robert Henry Laurison to a Lucinda Gilpin. This couple with 3 children appear to be in the 1911 Ireland census. Robert’s birth year is given as 1873 in the census.

PB


Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 16:41 BST (UK)
Thank you Alan,  that makes perfect sense.  I will follow him up tommorow, try and find when he left Ireland,  etc,  when he married etc,  thank you
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 16:43 BST (UK)
Ah, Polar bear.............making even more sense now........thank you
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 16:45 BST (UK)
Goodness Gracious ME !!!!!! What a kerfuffle !!!!! Thank you everyone for your help
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 01 September 24 16:51 BST (UK)
I will follow him up tommorow, try and find when he left Ireland,  etc,  when he married etc,  thank you

Check out image 10 of 11
Robert and Helen LAWSON in Nanaimo - 1931 Canada census
Arrived in Canada 1905.
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Home/Record?app=census&IdNumber=85975171&ecopy=e011772015

Married 15 January 1912
His parents John LAWSON and Sarah Jane Gibson
https://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/dcc06d80-e361-4079-88ce-2c42b3684f28


Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 17:00 BST (UK)
Yes indeed kilglassen, that is him...............Thank you, thank you, i just went on to family search and looked at my tree and someone else has added that info on for me, i will contact the adder and see if we are connected now..............WONDERFUL progress,  again thank you to all
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Sunday 01 September 24 17:30 BST (UK)
Found Robert and his son Peter.............happy ending
Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 01 September 24 19:46 BST (UK)

Cemetery - Nanaimo Municipal, Vancouver Island, British Columbia

https://canadianheadstones.ca/wp/headstone-search-update/?wpda_search_column_firstname=Robert&wpda_search_column_lastname=Lawson

Click to enlarge the headstone image.


Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 02 September 24 11:57 BST (UK)

The Tweedie connection:

Elizabeth Jane Laurison married Joseph Tweedie - 28 January 1895 - Mullavilly Parish Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1895/10512/5829048.pdf

Both living at Tamnavelton [sic] townland (Laurelvale).
https://www.townlands.ie/armagh/orior-lower/kilmore-lower-orior-portion/mullahead-rural/tamnaghvelton/


Title: Re: Please please help
Post by: Heather Walsh on Monday 02 September 24 14:41 BST (UK)
Thank you, I have all his siblings and who they married, Robert was the one that had me baffled..........thank you