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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: minniehaha on Friday 30 August 24 23:00 BST (UK)
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I have found two references in Archives to one, John Carter, who was sent to an Industrial School in 1877/78.
The first file is headed, "From Master, Industrial School, Caversham. Forwards licence papers". Within the file, "J. Carter to L. Williams".
The second file is headed, "Papers for licensing out" and the name of John Carter is shown within the file.
While to a degree "licensing out" is self explanatory, I would be grateful if someone could give me some solid information on this, please.
It is known that John Carter and his two brothers, Edward and William, were sent to the Industrial School but I have only found John in Archives.
[I have no need for any further information about these children.]
Minniehaha.
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Looking in the AJHR I can’t see anything as early as yours, but it seems clear from eg this clip that it is as you suspect that children were sent out to foster homes.
But you would think there would be something about the procedures/payments etc but so far cannot see anything.
Reading through the annual reports might be useful.
Added. https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/parliamentary/appendix-to-the-journals-of-the-house-of-representatives/1881/I/1275 From 1881 has a good list of requirements
Searching using the term “boarding out” is more productive than “licensing out”
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Hi Minniehaha,
I think I have an answer for you with this transcription, where the child was fostered out under a warrant issued under the Industrial School's Act 1882. The document names the adult who will act in this role.
I suspect the 'L. WILLIAMS' in your record held the same role.
Archives NZ ref: R4272909 ACGB 8304 CW13/5.
Warrants issued under the Industrial School's Act 1882: March 1882-August 1884.
Page 1:
WHEREAS Sarah Ann PARNELL is now an inmate of Caversham Industrial School within the meaning of "The Industrial School's Act, 1882"; and whereas it has been made to appear to my satisfaction that Mary Ann FRASER of East Taieri, hereinafter called "the said person" is willing qualified to provide for and take change of the said inmate:
Now, therefore, I, the Minister of Education for the Colony of New Zealand, in pursuance and exercise of all powers in this behalf enabling me, do hereby grant to the said inmate licence to reside with the said person until the 31st day of March, one thousand eight hundred and eighty five, unless the said inmate shall be sooner called upon by me to return to the said school: provided always, and these presents are upon the express condition, that the said person shall find and provide the said inmate sufficient meat, drink, clothing, lodging, and all other necessaries during the said term, and shall also sign an agreement to observe the regulations and conditions of the First and Third schedules indorsed hereon: which conditions I also agree to observe.
Signature of Thomas DICK.
Minister of Education.
Date: 24 March 1884.
Page 2:
First Schedule: Regulations for the Boarding-out of Children.
Second Schedule: Regulations for Placing Inmates out at Service. (not applicable)
Third Schedule: Agreement as to Payment under Licence: Mrs FRASER to receive 8s a week.
SUPPLY OF CLOTHING FOR BOARDED OUT CHILDREN.
Boys Girls
Boots (pairs) 2 Boots (pairs) 2
Caps or hats 2 Hats 2
Jackets 3 Jackets 2
Socks (pairs) 3 Dresses 3
Vests 3 Chemises 3
Trousers (pairs) 3 Stockings or socks (Pairs) 3
Shirts 3 Petticoats 3
Belts or braces 2 Pinafores or aprons 3
Flannels 3 Flannels 3
Handkerchiefs 3 Handkerchiefs 3
Collars, linens (girls over twelve) 3
Nightgowns 3
Page 3:
Proposal for the boarding-out of a child from Caversham Industrial School.
Child's Name: Sarah Ann PARNELL
Age: 4 years 3 months
Religion: Church of England
Degree of Education: None
Health: Good
Date and circumstances of child's admission to the school: Admitted 28 Feb 1884. The mother in gaol committed for trial for robbery from the person.
Name of the proposed foster-mother, and her age: Mary Ann FRASER, 31.
Residence: Riccarton, East Taieri.
Whether married, single, or widow; and if married,
whether husband resides at home: Married, husband resides at home.
Number and ages of children in family, and particulars
as to other members of household, as lodgers, servants, &c.: 6 ch, 6 to 15. Has two from I.S. (Industrial School), applying for 2 more.
Church to which family belongs: Presbyterian.
School that child would attend: -
Occupation and circumstances of head of family: Farmer, lives in 14 roomed house, has 2 acres of orchard, cows and fowls.
Name of Local Visitor who will look after the child: Mrs Rob. CHARTERS.
Date: 18 March 1884.
My apologies for the formatting.
Regards,
Spades
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I see eight files held by Archives NZ for such Warrants. All are currently restricted while waiting for the relevant agency to clarify access.
https://collections.archives.govt.nz/en/web/arena/search#/?q=Warrants+issued+under+the+Industrial+School%27s+Act+1882
Spades
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But it might be worth requesting to view one of them on spec....I'll enquire.
Spades
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Hi Minniehaha,
I searched 'licence Industrial School' on Archives NZ and found this file R24160218 dating to 1877, the period you are researching. The file description refers to 'terms of the licencing form'.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tds/
Would you like me to get it for you?
Spades
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Wow Spades!! Fantastic information, thank you very much for going to all that trouble. Very interesting and a great deal of stuff too. For those times, I am actually surprised at the clothing provided. Quite generous really.
I am hesitant to ask, but would you be able to have a look at the Archives file sometime for me? If I put up the link which has mention of John Carter? Because the year(s) are earlier than the example you have shown, I realise there may not be a great deal of information.
Mckha, thank you too, for your contribution. Every little bit helps. :)
Minniehaha.
P. S. Just noticed your last post Spades. Will have a read of it now and reply.
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Thank you for that kind offer Spades. However I think I now have sufficient details about the Licensing system.
I would be interested to know what is on file for John Carter:
https://collections.archives.govt.nz/en/web/arena/search#/entity/aims-archive/R24359323/from%3A-master-industrial-school%2C-caversham-date%3A-9-april-1878-subject%3A-papers-for-licensing-out-george-thistall-%5B%3F%5D%2C-james-hart%2C-george-thomas%2C-john-carter%2C-william-b-hutchings%2C-lily-brook%2C-and-frederick-jones?q=industrial+school+%2B+john+carter&source=aims-archive
ItemID: R24359323Dates: 1878 - 1878Box number: 223Former archives reference: J1Position reference: wRecord number: 1878/1096Location: Wellington repository
https://collections.archives.govt.nz/en/web/arena/search#/entity/aims-archive/R24352275/from%3A-master%2C-industrial-school%2C-caversham-date%3A-13-december-1877-subject%3A-forwards-license-papers%2C-t-stevens-to-h-stevens%2C-m-thomson-to-w-hardie%2C-and-j-carter-to-l-williams?q=industrial+school+%2B+j+carter&source=aims-archive
ItemID: R24352275Dates: 1877 - 1877Box number: 216Former archives reference: J1Position reference: zRecord number: 1877/4630Location: Wellington repository
It is so long since I have put up links to Archives; not sure if I have done the above correctly?
I know you went to Archives very recently so please put this on the back burner for a while. ;D
Minniehaha.
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I am actually surprised at the clothing provided. Quite generous really.
You do get interesting ones Minnie :D .. Can you adopt me? ;D ;D :D About the clothing, makes you wonder how many items were cut down from adult clothing, to fit the child, thinking from the financial side.
Cheers
KHP
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Hi KHP. We haven't seen each other for quite a while... ;D
Yes, this is an interesting one. The child concerned is not an ancestor of mine but that of my second cousin.
It is possible that the clothes were recycled in some way. Do hope the boots fitted well. Not much worse than ill-fitting footwear. Been there, done that! ::)
Minniehaha.
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Hi KHP. We haven't seen each other for quite a while... ;D
Minniehaha.
We haven't. I was out of action for quite a while, hobnobbing it with hospital staff
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Hi Minnihaha,
Yes, you provided what I needed, thanks.
I've requested both files to view this coming Tuesday.
Regards,
Spades
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Spades, thank you VERY* much. You are a star..... ;D
*Still doing battle with this Tablet and can't seem able to do underlining. Sigh!
Minniehaha.
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LOL, I'm with you there!
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This article in the Evening Star (
Christchurch - correction: Otago) of 14 November 1876 - NEGLECTED CHILDREN is revealing, showing that the four young victims were actually charged with 'being neglected children' and were sent to the Industrial School for twelve months, the shortest period allowed by the Act.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tdt/
Spades
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Something else I have learned; only up to a year to be spent in an Industrial School. Thanks for that interesting information Spades. I don't know how long the three small Carter boys remained at the school. As previously mentioned, I have only found John in the Archives records. He was the eldest child, born 1866.
Minniehaha.
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Not only one year, Minniehaha, the minimum was a year. I have seen records where children were kept there until the of fifteen.
Archives NZ hold Industrial School Nominal Rolls so if you want me to I can look for him in those.
Spades
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Not only one year, Minniehaha, the minimum was a year. I have seen records where children were kept there until the of fifteen.
Archives NZ hold Industrial School Nominal Rolls so if you want me to I can look for him in those.
Spades
I completely misread that part. ::) :P. One of many senior (as in octogenarian) moments these days!!
I would be most grateful for anything you can find Spades, if you have time, thank you.
Minniehaha.
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Well, I've ordered the Industrial Schools Nominal Rolls Register for 1882-1884 and then belatedly realised that it's been digitized.
You can search it yourself at:
https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE72631618
There is no index. Each school is listed, some are divided Boys and Girls. Note that new admissions for each school appear after the already-admitted list. An index for the abbreviations used can be found at the bottom of each page.
Happy hunting,
Spades
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Thank you very much. :)
Minniehaha.
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Hi Minniehaha,
I have the files for you.
Can you please PM me with your email address.
Regards,
Spades
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My, that was quick!! Thank you very much. ;D
Email address sent.
Minniehaha.
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Images sent.
Spades
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Thank you!! The images are so clear. Your efforts as always are very much appreciated.
Kind regards,
Minniehaha.
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My pleasure, Minniehaha. :)
Spades