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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Shiny1 on Friday 30 August 24 09:29 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
I'm trying to find some information about Robert Brown Armstrong who married my relative Alice McVay Keating (nee English) in September 1941 somewhere in the Tynemouth District.
He was her second husband, all I really have is his name, I know that he out lived her (she died in 1975) and that they lived in the North Shields area.
I'd like to find out where they married, I know it wasn't Holy Trinity church where her first marriage was as I've checked the marriage registers for there.
Can anyone help identify him?
Thanks a lot,
Michael
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The page number for the marriage - Vol 10b Page 480 - seems quite high for Robert Brown and Alice Keating which may indicate marriage was at a non conformist venue or at the registry office.
The registry office on enquiry, may confirm if this was so.
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There is a death in the Newcastle Evening Chronicle 13 July 1991:
"Armstrong ( North Shields ) Tamar Close, on July 11th Robert Brown Armstrong, dear father and grandfather".
Equivalent death in death index gives date of birth as 7 May 1915. There is a likely birth in Tynemouth RD Apr - June 1915 with mmn Pells.
He can be found in the 1921 census and using the above date of birth you may be able to find him in the 1939 register.
William
Added: there is only one entry with this date of birth in the 1939 register for a Robert Armstrong.
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Thank you both very much for the help.
I was wondering if it might be a registry office marriage and that detective work re the DOB will really help me.
Thank you again,
Michael
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Short lived first marriage for Alice
Marriages Dec 1939
English Alice M Keating Tynemouth 10b 604
Keating John T English Tynemouth 10b 604
Births June qtr 1919
Keating John T Ainsley Tynemouth 10b 385
From https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/43939:60931
John Thomas Keating
Birth Date 4 Jun 1919
Birth Place North Shields, Northumberland
Death Date 2 Dec 1940
Death Age 21
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Thanks Carole,
Yes he was a sailor who lost his life when HMS Forfar was torpedoed.
Her second marriage was almost (but not quite) a year later.
Michael
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Further to William's post, I just did a quick search for births surname Armstrong, mmn English and there are 3 possibles in Tynemouth (1942, 1954, 1958) and 1 in Newcastle 1944 which may be worth noting. I won't post names as they are all possibly alive (I am and some are younger than me!)
According to the Shields Daily News 14 Feb 1941, page 4, col 6, her first husband was reported missing at sea when the Forfar sank and his relatives were still clinging to the hope he may still be alive. Sadly CWGC confirms he died and gives a date of death as 2nd Dec 1940.
So her re-marriage between 01 Jul and 30 Sept 1941 may well have been a quiet one at a registry office.
Boo
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Hi Boo,
Thanks very much, I hadn't spotted that particular story in the newspapers, I'll have a look for it and the BMD entries.
I know her first marriage had been on the front page with a photo so yes they may well have gone quieter, especially given the short length of time.
Michael
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There was another Robert Brown Armstrong who died in 1984 (d.o.b. 27 Feb 1914), the image on FreeBMD gives a month of registration as 05.
This one can be discounted (which makes the one William led you to more likely) as his death announcement Newcastle Evening Chronicle 19 May 1984, page 16, col 1 gives his wife's name as Gladys (nee Currie) and that checks out to have been in Q2 1939 Tynemouth District.
There's a 3rd Robert Brown Armstrong in Free BMD Deaths between 1975-1997 (latest in the database)
who died Q1 1980, Northumberland North 2nd, d.o.b. given as 14 Sep 1914, I haven't looked at him yet.
Nosey as ever:
You said the man you are looking for survived his wife - what is you have to confirm that?
Boo
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link for the article I mentioned
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-viewer?issue=BL%2F0002077%2F19410214&page=4&article=086&stringtohighlight=keating
and there's also this one:
Feb 12 1941 Shields Daily News, page 3 col 3
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-viewer?issue=BL%2F0002077%2F19410212&page=3&article=053&stringtohighlight=keating
Boo
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Thanks a lot Boo, it was some paperwork I stumbled across that showed he was definitely alive when she passed away.
Michael
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Ok but I've confirmed it with her death notice too now
Newcastle Evening Chronicle 03 Sept 1975
page 2 col 1
Deaths
ARMSTRONG North Shields. 33 Taunton Avenue on Sept 3,
Alice McVey (nee English) dearly beloved wife of Bob and dear mother of R_, C_
and A_ and dearest grandmother of R_.
Cremation at Tynemouth Crematorium Friday 2pm.
Friends please meet at crematorium. Flowers
and enquiries to R. Johnson, Chapel of Rest,
Cleveland Road North Shields
(names of children/grandchildren obscured as they may still be alive)
Boo
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Thanks a lot Boo,
I hadn't spotted that at all.
Michael
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https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/241109373/alice-mcvay-armstrong#source
I added this memorial to Find A Grave two years ago it seems, from records at the local studies.
These records which are on microfilm, can be very detailed and often record things such as cause of death etc.
https://www.remembrance-books.com/Tynemouth/book-of-remembrance.html#page/492
Alice has an entry in the Book of Remembrance
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Hi RTL,
I had spotted your record, thank you for adding her.
I'll send you a message.
Michael
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I have added the wedding photo to Alice's memorial.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/274203050/robert-brown-armstrong
I have also added second husband Robert to Find A Grave. He was also cremated at Tynemouth Crematorium.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/274203189/robert-brown-armstrong
There was another Robert Brown Armstrong who was cremated there too in 1984. This person also got married in 1939. I wonder if these two may be related?
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You may already have the marriage info for the Keating marriage but here it is just in case you haven't seen this already:
Marriage at Holy Trinity, North Shields
Entry 227
19 Dec 1939
John Thomas Keating & Alice McVay English
His age 20 Her age 19
Bachelor & Spinster
His occupation: Sailor
Residence for both: 66 Seymour Street
Fathers:
John Thomas Keating - Retired Fruiterer
Alexander English - Baker
Witnesses: Thomas Jennings Conway & Elsie Conway
All signed
By Banns
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That's brilliant, thanks very much RTL.
Michael