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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Doddie on Thursday 29 August 24 21:18 BST (UK)
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Hi, a bit of a random one this. Charles Wregg (or Wragg) was born at sea in 1824. I Have up till now given up any hope of finding any more information about his birth. However, I have recently discovered that Charles' father Peter was a gunner with the Royal Artillery. As far as I can ascertain, Charles was baptised in January of 1824 at the Royal Artillery Barracks on Artillery Place, Woolwich. It states on the baptismal record that he was baptised in "January, born January". I am wondering if records for the Royal Artillery will reveal the activities of the regiment and thus where at sea Charles was born.
Regards
Doddie
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The baptismal record says born 9th January baptised 21st January
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Thanks CaroleW
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Where is the info from showing he was born at sea?
EDIT - IGNORE ABOVE. HE'S IN SCOTLAND - NOT ENGLAND - ON CENSUS RECORDS
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Charles died 1911 - mmn MacKenzie
1822 marriage on SP - Peter Wragg/Ann McKinzie (McKenzie)
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1841 shows Peter & Ann Wragg in Lanarkshire with 4 children including Charles
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I am wondering if records for the Royal Artillery will reveal the activities of the regiment and thus where at sea Charles was born.
Do you know which Company of the 8th Battalion Peter served with?
The link below gives a table of the 19th century stations for the 8th Battalion of the RA.
Scroll down to Chapter VIII then to page 140 onwards. Page numbers are on the right.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/58209/58209-h/58209-h.htm
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Do you know which Company of the 8th Battalion Peter served with?
How do you know he was with the 8th battalion?
There was a Peter Wragg of a similar age who served with the 4th and 8th battalions, but he was from Matlock Derbyshire, and he returned there after being pensioned off, where you can follow him in the census. So this is not the correct man.
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Do you have Peter Wragg's marriage record of 1822? -- This may mention his battalion.
Any of the other children's baptism records may mention his battalion
(The daughter Margaret Ann Wragg baptised 1831 in Harwich, Essex
Baptism record just has father as Royal Artillery)
What information did you get from his death certificate?
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Peter Wragg of 8th Battalion RA, born Matlock, circa 1789, admitted to pension 1 October 1832:
Service records:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO97%2F1271%2F152%2F001&parentid=GBM%2FWO97%2F1271%2F717010
Resident in Glasgow in 1845 - 1854:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO23%2F29%2F00038&parentid=GBM%2FWO23%2F29%2F00038%2F0995171
Resident in Glasgow 1855 until his death 11 Jan 1864:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO23%2F53%2F00168&parentid=GBM%2FWO23%2F53%2F00168%2F1204757
The man of the same name in Matlock in the censuses must be someone else. He's ten years older.
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Peter Wragg of 8th Battalion RA, born Matlock, circa 1789, admitted to pension 1 October
He was in 4 th battalion until 1831.
No point adding links to a web sight that requires subscription.
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Thanks to all again. You've been excelling yourselves.
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Hi, a bit of a random one this. Charles Wregg (or Wragg) was born at sea in 1824.
Doddie
FindMyPast has a record set "British Armed Forces and Overseas Births & Baptisms". Originally they were 3 separate record sets -
a. British nationals born overseas 1810-2005
b. British nationals armed forces births 1761-2005
c. Births at sea
Charles falls under b) above. His records read "Woolwich" in the column headed "Place"and can be obtained via the GRO quoting "line No." as reference.
He has 2 records - with Line nos 118 and 7.
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Here is Peter Wragg's death details. The occupation is a bit hard to decipher but it isn't army related
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The occupation looks like "iron master's labourer"
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This is the only record found of Peter Wragg's overseas service. No dates, unfortunately.
Perhaps his statements of service might hold more information:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14430569
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12753067
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Hi ShaunJ, thank you for your ferreting. You've been many a RootsChatter's salvation over the years and it is very much appreciated. The overseas record may have no dates but it still sheds a little more light on things.
Regards
Doddie
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Yes his occupation is “Iron master’s labourer” – as you would expect, as this is his occupation in the census.
As I previously posted his service records says he was with the 4th batt Royal Artillery until 1831 when he transferred to 8th batt.
As he was in the military when he married, the best place to look for mention of his battalion is on his marriage record – but it may give nothing more than “Soldier”.
Children of Joseph and Mary WRAGG baptised in Matlock
• John 15 Sep 1782
• George 28 Mar 1784
• Joseph 26 Feb 1786
• Adam 20 Jan 1788
• Peter Wragg 7 Feb 1790
• Joseph 9 Sep 1792
13 Sept 1842 Matlock - Burial of a Joseph Wragg (age 76)
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Hi Neale1961, Peter's marriage record describes him as, "an Artillery man". He married Anne MacKenzie in Nairn, about 16 miles NE of Inverness.
Regards
Doddie
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I have just discovered that Peter & Ann Wragg had a daughter, Margaret Ann Wragg, who was born in Harwich, Essex in 1831. Does anybody know if this area had any connections with the Royal Artillery?
Regards
Doddie
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I have just discovered that Peter & Ann Wragg had a daughter, Margaret Ann Wragg, who was born in Harwich, Essex in 1831.
Information posted in reply 8, 30th August. :)
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Hi Neale1961, to coin a phrase much used by Homer Simpson - “Doh!”. All of this investigating is addling my brain.
Regards
Doddle
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"Peter Wragg of 8th Battalion RA, born Matlock, circa 1789, admitted to pension 1 October 1832:"
A breakthrough. I feel extremely sheepish if I'm honest. On Ancestry I have come across the catalogue titled, 'UK, Royal Hospital Chelsea Admissions Books, Registers and Papers, 1702-1980'. There are three entries for Peter Wragg.
1. This details some service information. Peter served with the 8th Battn. of the Royal Artillery until he was 43. He left as a result of suffering from chronic rheumatism. He had served a total of 25 years. He was born in 'Matlock Derby'. The date of admission for his pension was 1 October 1832.
2. This just details again the date of admission for Peter's pension as above and states his place of residence as Glasgow.
3. In this final entry Peter's name is scored out and in the column marked '1864' are the words "Died 11/1". Peter's place of residence when he died was Glasgow.
I had planned to send photos of the relevant pages but, the resolution wasn't the best.
Some information on various websites has the Peter Wragg that was born in Matlock as dying there too in 1842. This is not correct. This Peter and 'my' Peter are one and the same. On Peter Wragg's Scottish death certificate for the year 1864 his father is ,"Joseph Wragg, Silk Weaver (deceased)". I did notice in an earlier post the family details of the Wragg family. I turns out it was Joseph that died in 1842.
Regards
Doddie
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Regarding ShaunJ's post (15) about Peter Wragg's foreign postings, I can clearly read France and Canada, but is the other one Madiera? The only reason I am having any doubts about this is that Madeira is not a country.
Regards
Doddie
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Regarding ShaunJ's post (15) about Peter Wragg's foreign postings, I can clearly read France and Canada, but is the other one Madiera? The only reason I am having any doubts about this is that Madeira is not a country.
Regards
Doddie
Madeira is an island in the Atlantic.
From Google
'Even though the island has never been an official colony of the British empire, it was occupied by British troops twice, played an important role in British trade and tourism, and achieved quasi-colonial status between the 15 th and 19 th centuries.'
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Hi, my last post about Peter Wragg, I promise! I have viewed Peter's army pension records. He served as a gunner with the RA for 25 years, leaving in 1832. He left the army as a result of chronic rheumatism. In the relevant listings for Peter it states in the column titled 'Rate' the figure of '1.2'. and the 'Date of Admission' as 'Oct. 32'. I am not sure if the 1.2 figure is a pension amount or his army pay. In a separate, but similarly related document, The heading of one page is, 'Statement of Service', and the heading of the other is, 'Description of the Pensioner'. Peter also appears in this document. I presume that the information in these documents is indicative of the individuals listed being assessed for pensions. That being the case, can anybody tell me how generous, or otherwise, an army pension during this period was? After the war Peter worked as a labourer in the iron industry.
Regards
Doddie
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I have viewed Peter's army pension records. He served as a gunner with the RA for 25 years, leaving in 1832. He left the army as a result of chronic rheumatism. In the relevant listings for Peter it states in the column titled 'Rate' the figure of '1.2'. and the 'Date of Admission' as 'Oct. 32'. I am not sure if the 1.2 figure is a pension amount or his army pay. In a separate, but similarly related document, The heading of one page is, 'Statement of Service', and the heading of the other is, 'Description of the Pensioner'. Peter also appears in this document. I presume that the information in these documents is indicative of the individuals listed being assessed for pensions. That being the case, can anybody tell me how generous, or otherwise, an army pension during this period was?
Yes the figure of 1 shilling and 2d was his daily pension rate. This compares with a typical agricultural labourer's wage of 1s 8d per day (1830) or 1s 9d (1840); coal miner 2s 8d (1830) or 2s 7d (1840); building labourer 2s 4d (1830) or 2s 5d (1840). Source: Clark, Gregory 2018 "Average Earnings and Retail Prices, UK, 1209-2017" See https://www.measuringworth.com/datasets/ukearncpi/earnstudyx.pdf
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Thanks Andy J2022, those figures are very interesting.
Regards
Doddie