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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: delabane on Wednesday 28 August 24 12:22 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I am trying to find out more information on my great great great grandfathers, father, a William Fletcher.
His sons name was Samuel Fletcher and he was born in South Leverton in 1824 and died in 1905.
His says his parents are a William and Elizabeth Fletcher (I don't know her maiden name) but it MIGHT be the below records:
Elizabeth FLETCHER age 53
Burial date 15 Oct 1843
abode South Leverton
South Leverton All Saints
William FLETCHER age 63
Burial date 18 Mar 1827
abode South Leverton
However I have not been able to find anything about a William Fletcher. I know the family are associated with North and South Leverton but there is a possibility of the village of Sturton le Steeple (all 3 villages have churches and are within an hours walk of each other).
Would be grateful if anyone could help, I am trying to find out the parents of William Fletcher.
Many thanks
Ben Fletcher
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Transcription only - Baptism All Saints South Leverton
Samuel Fletcher baptised 18.7.1824 Parents William & Elizabeth
In 1841 Samuel was working/living in the household of George & Ann Taylor & family including a son George. A George Taylor was a witness to Samuel's marriage
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Many thanks for the reply. I know a bit about Samuel Fletcher SR (he also had a son named Samuel). I am trying to find out who his father was. All I know was that his parents were a William and Elizabeth (possibly Fenton). It's his father William I would like to try and know more about. The possible below records are Samuel Fletcher SR Parents:
Elizabeth FLETCHER (nee Fenton) age 53
Burial date 15 Oct 1843
abode South Leverton
South Leverton All Saints
William FLETCHER age 63
Burial date 18 Mar 1827
abode South Leverton
I have not been able to find a birth record for William Fletcher.
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If Elizabeth was alive in 1841 - I can't find an 1841 entry for her in South Leverton
The 1827 burial for William shows he was 63 - Elizabeth would only have been 37 at that time if she is the right 1843 burial. That's a 26yr age difference so she could have been a second wife
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Yes, that was the case with his son and grandson, wife died married again. I wonder if he (William) was from another area?
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Just found her on the 1841 - Ancestry have transcribed her as Flecker
Living in South Leverton but nobody of the same name living with her. Shown as aged 55 - born in county - occ Nurse.
Piece 850 book 19 folio 9 page 13
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Maybe she was a widow and this was her husband:
South Leverton All Saints
William FLETCHER age 63
Burial date 18 Mar 1827
abode South Leverton
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Hi,
You say:
His says his parents are a William and Elizabeth Fletcher (I don't know her maiden name)
But then you say:
Samuel Fletcher SR Parents:
Elizabeth FLETCHER (nee Fenton) age 53
Burial date 15 Oct 1843
abode South Leverton
That she is nee Fenton?
Presumably you are referring to the marriage in Sturton-Le-Steeple between a William Fletcher and Elizabeth Fenton on 7th March 1815?
This definitely seems like a possible marriage to me, taking into account that the first baptism to a William & Elizabeth Fletcher in South Leverton took place in August the same year. Important to note that he is down as a bachelor.
Unfortunately, there are several William Fletchers in the South Leverton area at the same time as yours - with Fletcher being one of the more common surnames (although not on the same level as Smith) - and the witnesses to that marriage do not share a surname with either party. Furthermore, none of William & Elizabeth's children (William, Sarah, John & Samuel) have particularly unusual names, which could have been useful.
I am wondering whether William was actually from Sturton-Le-Steeple, because there is a William baptised there to Thomas & Mary Fletcher on 31st December 1771. Can't see a burial for this man in Sturton-Le-Steeple, which could suggest he moved elsewhere. Slightly later than expected, but more in line with the fact that William had not been married previously (although he would still be an older groom). We are relying on the person who gave William's age at death in 1827 (assuming that is the correct burial) having reliable information, and that is not always the case. The informant may have only known that William was quite a bit older than his wife.
Just thought it was worth investigating.
Queenie :)
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Hi,
You say:
His says his parents are a William and Elizabeth Fletcher (I don't know her maiden name)
But then you say:
Samuel Fletcher SR Parents:
Elizabeth FLETCHER (nee Fenton) age 53
Burial date 15 Oct 1843
abode South Leverton
That she is nee Fenton?
Presumably you are referring to the marriage in Sturton-Le-Steeple between a William Fletcher and Elizabeth Fenton on 7th March 1815?
This definitely seems like a possible marriage to me, taking into account that the first baptism to a William & Elizabeth Fletcher in South Leverton took place in August the same year. Important to note that he is down as a bachelor.
Unfortunately, there are several William Fletchers in the South Leverton area at the same time as yours - with Fletcher being one of the more common surnames (although not on the same level as Smith) - and the witnesses to that marriage do not share a surname with either party. Furthermore, none of William & Elizabeth's children (William, Sarah, John & Samuel) have particularly unusual names, which could have been useful.
I am wondering whether William was actually from Sturton-Le-Steeple, because there is a William baptised there to Thomas & Mary Fletcher on 31st December 1771. Can't see a burial for this man in Sturton-Le-Steeple, which could suggest he moved elsewhere. Slightly later than expected, but more in line with the fact that William had not been married previously (although he would still be an older groom). We are relying on the person who gave William's age at death in 1827 (assuming that is the correct burial) having reliable information, and that is not always the case. The informant may have only known that William was quite a bit older than his wife. This William had a brother called Samuel, although again it is not the most unusual name.
Just thought it was worth investigating.
Queenie :)
Hello there!
Thanks for your reply.
To be honest, its more of a case hoping her surname is Fenton because I am out of ideas and this has eluded me for the last 2 years on when and where William Fletcher was born and died.
I know he had a son called William and Samuel (the latter is where my line comes from).
Originally I had thought William was illegitimate as there is a record in 1794 for a William Fletcher, son of unmarried Eliz Fletcher in South Leverton and this lead nowhere. Not even poor records. However the only Eliz Fletcher was born in 1790, which would have made her 14 (you then start to make some horrible assumptions).
There is very little to eliminate by cross reference so its being a complete nightmare and I would like to go further back - if possible! A fresh perspective is I think helpful!
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The informant may have only known that William was quite a bit older than his wife. This William had a brother called Samuel, although again it is not the most unusual name.
Ah I think thats William Fletcher's oldest Son William. Samuel is where I came from.
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The informant may have only known that William was quite a bit older than his wife. This William had a brother called Samuel, although again it is not the most unusual name.
Ah I think thats William Fletcher's oldest Son William. Samuel is where I came from.
My apologies, I think I got my wires crossed :-\
I thought that the William baptised in 1771 in Sturton-Le-Steeple to Thomas and Mary Fletcher had a brother called Samuel, but I do not know why I thought that as I am now unable to find any baptism of a Samuel to this couple, so I will amend my earlier post.
In 1799, a Samuel Fletcher did marry at the same church as William Fletcher and Elizabeth Fenton, but again no relevant witnesses that could suggest a connection to your William.
I fully sympathise with your plight, as William Fletcher is a not an unusual name and it is going to be quite a challenge proving his origins with any certainty. Hopefully someone else may have some ideas.
Queenie :)
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Thats ok, I welcome all input. The oldest Samuel I am aware of was 1824-1905 and he married a Jane Spowage. While the William Fletcher appears to have died in South Leverton in 1827, I am wondering if he came from another parish.
I think its like this:
William Fletcher SR ??-1827
Elizabeth Fenton???
Children of above
1815 08 20 William JR
1819 04 18 Sarah
1821 09 16 John
1824 07 18 Samuel SR (my ancestor who married Jane Spowage)
1830 11 11 Charles FLETCHER Elizabeth (nee Fenton?) Widow
Burials
1821 12 12 Sarah FLETCHER age 2 SOUTH LEVERTON All Saints
1831 05 29 John FLETCHER age 9 SOUTH LEVERTON All Saints
1831 06 09 Charles FLETCHER Inf SOUTH LEVERTON All Saints
South Leverton All Saints
Elizabeth FLETCHER (nee Fenton???) age 53
Burial date 15 Oct 1843?
abode South Leverton
and for her husband --
South Leverton All Saints
William FLETCHER age 63 born in 1764???
Burial date 18 Mar 1827
abode South Leverton
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Hello Ben,
Thought i might have a look to see if i can help. Thank you for your comments on my post Fletcher family of Lenton.
I have found the marriage cert for Samuel Fletcher and Mary Taylor, obviously his second marriage.
Regards
Mike Fletcher
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Ben,
correct Baptism for Jane Spowage.
Regards
Mike
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Ben,
correct Baptism for Jane Spowage.
Regards
Mike
Hello Mike!
Many thanks, yes that was his first marriage. Sadly it seems father and son both lost thier first wives and remarried and became father quite late in life. So far my tree looks like this:
Ben (myself)
Steven
Gordon
Clarence
Samuel Jr
Samuel Sr (1824-1905)
William (??-1827?)
All I know is that Samuel Sr's parents were a William and Elizabeth Fletcher (nee Fenton??).
There is a baptism for a William Fletcher in 1793 who was born to a Eliz Fletcher but no father and nothing else can be found. The only Eliz Fletcher born nearby in Retford, was 1780 but would make her 13/14 years old!
I then found a burial for a William Fletcher in 1827 but he is 63, which isn't impossible. However I am not able to find a baptism locally to mark him out.
I been stuck on this for 2 years!
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Hi Ben,
Snap i am in the same boat with a few of my ancestors. I am looking for you and i will let you know if and when i find something. As they say two heads is better than one sometimes.
Mike
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Hi Ben,
Snap i am in the same boat with a few of my ancestors. I am looking for you and i will let you know if and when i find something. As they say two heads is better than one sometimes.
Mike
Hello Mike,
Many thanks, yes that is right!
It seems that William and Elizabeth (Fenton) had several children only 2 survived into adulthood (William JR and Samuel SR):
1815 08 20 William JR
1819 04 18 Sarah
1821 09 16 John
1824 07 18 Samuel SR (my ancestor who married Jane Spowage)
1830 11 11 Charles Elizabeth window by 1827, illegitimate???
Burials
1821 12 12 Sarah FLETCHER age 2 SOUTH LEVERTON All Saints
1831 05 29 John FLETCHER age 9 SOUTH LEVERTON All Saints
1831 06 09 Charles FLETCHER Inf SOUTH LEVERTON All Saints
Many thanks
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Ben,
From FindMyPast files regarding William 1794
Mike
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Ben,
From FindMyPast files regarding William 1794
Mike
Aye, that's the dead end record, which I had fear it would be. Until we found the below:
Children of above
1815 08 20 William JR
1819 04 18 Sarah
1821 09 16 John
1824 07 18 Samuel SR (my ancestor who married Jane Spowage)
1830 11 11 Charles FLETCHER Elizabeth (nee Fenton?) Widow
Which means William Fletcher SR died between 1824-1827. The only record for a burial for a William Fletcher around this time is:
South Leverton All Saints
William FLETCHER age 63 born in 1764???
Burial date 18 Mar 1827
abode South Leverton
Which means it can't be the 1794 William Fletcher baptism with Eliz Fletcher as this William Fletcher would be 33 and there are no further burials for a William Fletcher after 1827 (if the above is OUR William).
Its a complete mess really.
Many thanks
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Ben,
found this death, possibly the correct one for William Fletcher in Soth Leverton, PSA
Mike
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Ben,
Looking at that one again, it will be wrong, puts him at 17 yrs old before he got married. Still searching
Mike
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Ben,
looking at FindMyPast, there is only 8 other deaths which may be that of William, these are between 1839 and 1865, they are all in East Retford.
Mike
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Ben,
Looking at that one again, it will be wrong, puts him at 17 yrs old before he got married. Still searching
Mike
Many thanks Mike, I don't know if you local but North Leverton, South Leverton and Sturton le Steeple all have churches and are all within less then a hours walking distance from each other. So its possible marriages, births and deaths could be at any of the 3, although it mostly seem to be South Leverton. My great great grandfather Samuel Fletcher JR (1872-1939) is buried in North Leverton. I don't know where his father Samuel Fletcher SR (1824-1905) is buried though. Been mostly been trying to find Williams details and who his parent(s) are.
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Ben,
Im originally from North Yorkshire, just above Whitby, i now live in Scotland
Mike
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Ben,
looking at FindMyPast, there is only 8 other deaths which may be that of William, these are between 1839 and 1865, they are all in East Retford.
Mike
Hmm, on Samuel Fletcher SR's (1824-1905) marriage his father is listed as a Labourer so I would have assumed he would have remained local. That said Retford would have been thier nearest town, 6 miles away and Gainsborough is 7.5.
This is why I have been stuck for the last 2 years!
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Ben,
Im originally from North Yorkshire, just above Whitby, i now live in Scotland
Mike
Nice Place Whitby, we used to go to the Goth Music Festival a decade ago. Too busy now :)
I am in South Wales now but grew up in Gloucestershire and Bristol. Born in Yorkshire and all my remaining family (just aunts, uncles and cousins now) live in Doncaster. My great grandfather Clarence Fletcher left Nottinghamshire for the railways. I don't think any of them live in the Retford area now. I had always assumed my main line was Yorkshire not Nottinghamshire. Not a country I know to well. I did visit the Levertons about a year ago and typically all the churches were locked!
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We try and visit every year to see the relatives. My Aunty Ida moved to Doncaster many moons ago her husband was Thomas Hutchinson, i think he worked on the railways.
What we have so far is that William 1794 was born to Elizabeth Fletcher born Jan 1780 to William Fletcher and Sarah in East Retford, she was 14 yrs old when she gave birth to William. Her possible death can only be two which is for East Retford, either 1843 or 1855.
William Fletcher married Sarah Couzens on 1st Jan 1778 in Hayton with Tilne. giving the best wider search has possible, there was only one William Fletcher that had a DoB of Nov 1752 in Clarborough, Nottinghamshire, England, his father was Joseph Fletcher and his mother was Ann.
Mike
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We try and visit every year to see the relatives. My Aunty Ida moved to Doncaster many moons ago her husband was Thomas Hutchinson, i think he worked on the railways.
What we have so far is that William 1794 was born to Elizabeth Fletcher born Jan 1780 to William Fletcher and Sarah in East Retford, she was 14 yrs old when she gave birth to William. Her possible death can only be two which is for East Retford, either 1843 or 1855.
William Fletcher married Sarah Couzens on 1st Jan 1778 in Hayton with Tilne. giving the best wider search has possible, there was only one William Fletcher that had a DoB of Nov 1752 in Clarborough, Nottinghamshire, England, his father was Joseph Fletcher and his mother was Ann.
Mike
My great great grandfather Samuel Fletcher JR (1872-1939) was a Railway Signalman, presumably in the Retford area. His house is in North Leverton and still standing. His son, Clarence Fletcher moved to Doncaster and became a Train Driver. He apparently drove the Mallard and Flying Scotsman.
Sorry bit confused?
So who would be the father of William Fletcher (father of William and Samuel Fletcher SR (1824-1905)) and what would tree like, sorry bit confused.
I though it was:
Myself
Steven Fletcher
Gordon Fletcher
Clarence Fletcher
Samuel Fletcher JR (1872-1939)
Samuel Fletcher SR (1824-1905)
William Fletcher Option 1 (??-1827) Option 2 (1794-??)
Father? Mother Elizabeth Fletcher age 14?
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Ben,
I am working back from Samuel Fletcher 1824-1905,
his father was William Fletcher 1794 and,
his Mother was Elizabeth Fletcher 1780,
her father was William Fletcher 1752 who married Sarah Couzens in 1778.
William Fletcher 1752, his father was Joseph Fletcher who married Ann Hill
Hope this clarifies for you, still searching for other evidence.
Mike
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Ben,
I am working back from Samuel Fletcher 1824-1905,
his father was William Fletcher 1794 and,
his Mother was Elizabeth Fletcher 1780,
her father was William Fletcher 1752 who married Sarah Couzens in 1778.
William Fletcher 1752, his father was Joseph Fletcher who married Ann Hill
Hope this clarifies for you, still searching for other evidence.
Mike
Many thanks
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Ben,
Just found Samuel Fletcher 1824-1905 death records, he was burried at East Retford aged 81.
Mike
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Ben,
Just found Samuel Fletcher 1824-1905 death records, he was burried at East Retford aged 81.
Mike
Mike, I wonder if that's St Swithun's Church, as it's listed as East Retford.
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Ben,
No idea, its the only death which comes up and does not say what church.
mike
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Ben,
No idea, its the only death which comes up and does not say what church.
mike
Ok thanks its something to go on in future. If I am reading that right, William Fletcher 1794, is he illegitimate? If his mother was 14 it makes you start to think something horrible happened.
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Ben,
Looks like it, and yes looks like something nasty happened.
I have found the marriage of Joseph Fletcher and Ann Hill but no Dob's yet. Marriage is as follows
St Peters church Hayton, Nottinghamshire 21 Oct 1750.
Mike
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Ben,
Looks like it, and yes looks like something nasty happened.
I have found the marriage of Joseph Fletcher and Ann Hill but no Dob's yet. Marriage is as follows
St Peters church Hayton, Nottinghamshire 21 Oct 1750.
Mike
That's awful, whats the certainty you think that this is our William (1794) as opposed to the 63 year old who died in 1827. I saw this originally but dismissed it due to her age and was not able to find any other details on her. Thanks
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Ben,
As far as my 35 yrs of knowledge with family research and the evidence on FindMyPast, Ancestry, Family Search etc. i can most certainly say we have the correct people.
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Ben,
Have to sign off just now, have to start sorting the tea, the wife finishes work at 5. Let me know what else you need looking up and i will get back tomorrow.
Mike
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Ben,
As far as my 35 yrs of knowledge with family research and the evidence on FindMyPast, Ancestry, Family Search etc. i can most certainly say we have the correct people.
Hello Mike,
Apologies I did not mean to sound like I was questioning your ability, rather the hope the vagueness of it all still left ample room for some uncertainty, especially in the circumstances we are currently left to conclude by my great X 5 grandmothers age at the time of her sons birth.
Many thanks for your assistance so far its greatly appreciated.
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Ben,
No worries, i have double checked your FT and i have found that Clarence Fletcher married Sarah Ann Whitehead, her maiden name was Cleary but she married a James B Whitehead in 1925, before she married Clarence. I will message you again with more updates shortly.
Mike
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Ben,
No worries, i have double checked your FT and i have found that Clarence Fletcher married Sarah Ann Whitehead, her maiden name was Cleary but she married a James B Whitehead in 1925, before she married Clarence. I will message you again with more updates shortly.
Mike
Hello Mike,
Ah yes, her first husband died but she had a son, James Whitehead who was my grandfather's half brother but he died when I was very young. My great grandmother died when I was 10, so I did know her. My grandfather died 2 year ago.
He said Samuel Fletcher JR was a Railwaymen Signalwomen and he used to stay at his house in North Leverton with his grandmother, Hannah Fletcher (born Hartley). He also told me that his father, Samuel Fletcher SR ran a Pub and a Eatery with his wife Jane Fletcher (born Spowage). Both Samuel Fletchers were married twice I think, both wives died. No children from these marriages and my lines came from both 2nd marriages. So both Samuel Fletchers were fathers late.
Unfortunately my grandfather did not appear to know anything about William Fletcher other then his name. This is who have have been stuck at a road block with trying to establish who his father is so I can go further back on my paternal line (I have not really bothered with maternal lines yet).
I forgot to mention I posted on another forum about a year ago and they did not think it was the single woman Elizabeth Fletcher, I will try and find it.
Many thanks for you help so far
Many thanks Ben