RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: prmt86 on Friday 23 August 24 16:26 BST (UK)
-
I'd be very grateful for some help with the marginal text on this spurious baptism. Was there a quick marriage done too? I have:
Bap et nup _____ _____
Edmundus filius Elizabethae Lees et Francisii Jackson Spur 19 die Sept. [1636]
Elizabeth's husband had recently died. The child Edmund reached adulthood and was known as Edmund Lees alias Jackson, and judging from his mother's will, seemed to be a favourite, getting two thirds of the farm, the horse and and all the residue of the estate.
-
The last word looks to me to be: Cantrell
Does that mean anything?
-
Could that which looks like Spur be sepeliatur, or buried the 19th of September?
-
The last word looks to me to be: Cantrell
Does that mean anything?
It does indeed look like it could be Cantrell, thank you. This is not a surname I have come across before - but following a quick search, does seem to be a fairly common local surname. So could it just be Bap et nup Dore[the]ae Cantrell? If so, why would the writer add this text to a child's baptism? All other entries on the page are very clean Baps, Nups and Seps.
-
Could that which looks like Spur be sepeliatur, or buried the 19th of September?
Thank you - I can't see it but interested to hear others' thoughts!
-
A burial entry, as Vance implied, is not impossible.
I don't think sepeliatur is possible, as that would be the subjunctive. The imperfect would be sepeliebatur, but you would normally expect the perfect tense for a burial, i.e. sepultus. No, I read that word as spur.
Could the last word be a contraction of sepultus, that is the word assumed to be Sept? That is probably not likely either, as it would mean the month is understood. Do the other entries on that page make that even possible? Does the page contain a mixture of baptisms, burials and marriages?
-
I think the final word is most likely Sept (the month), but do the other entries on the page have the date written in that kind of format?
If it was some unusual way of referring to a burial, there would need to be a good explanation for the Bap in the left hand margin - particularly since we're told that "All other entries on the page are very clean Baps, Nups and Seps".
Could the margin note be referring to Edmund's marriage? I'd initially wondered if it was added years later (although it doesn't look as though it was), on the assumption that he was a child in 1636, but is it possible that he was actually born years earlier, and baptised and married on the same day? It would be worth trying to identify possible Dorothy Cantrells.
-
On reflection, I am fairly sure that Edmund, who was illegitimate, was baptized and married to Dorothy Cantrell on the same day, 19th September.
-
Thank you to everyone who replied. I think I've got it thanks to your help.
I think the final word is most likely Sept (the month), but do the other entries on the page have the date written in that kind of format?
Yes it's definitely the month, the other entries in other months match the format exactly.
Could the margin note be referring to Edmund's marriage? I'd initially wondered if it was added years later (although it doesn't look as though it was), on the assumption that he was a child in 1636, but is it possible that he was actually born years earlier, and baptised and married on the same day? It would be worth trying to identify possible Dorothy Cantrells.
Yes I agree, I've started searching for Dorothy Cantrell. If Edmund was 21+ and got baptised so that he could get married, then his birth would have been before Elizabeth married and took the Lees surname. Her husband could have accepted the boy into the family hence him being established as Lees alias Jackson by the time of his baptism. It works. And now the marginal note is straightforward, it is now a simple same-day Bap et Nup for Edmund. Brilliant!
On reflection, I am fairly sure that Edmund, who was illegitimate, was baptized and married to Dorothy Cantrell on the same day, 19th September.
Me too having been prompted to think again following your comment.
Thanks so much.