RootsChat.Com

General => The Common Room => Topic started by: callbrian on Friday 23 August 24 11:27 BST (UK)

Title: Probate delay
Post by: callbrian on Friday 23 August 24 11:27 BST (UK)
Hi all,
I’m researching the family for a distant cousin, only recently found.
I found a death in 1904 in Reading Berkshire, then found the probate record dated March 1925.
I originally thought there was an error but on further investigation it appears to be correct.
Has anyone any ideas why this would be the case?
Her address in 1901 and address on the probate is the same.Fox and Hounds, City Road, Tilehurst.
Details are b 1864 Tilehurst, Charlotte Lucy Wickens m William James Hutchings, Reading.
Regards
Brian
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 23 August 24 11:50 BST (UK)
Maybe property, or other assets, were in joint names?
And they had to wait for the other party to pass away.

Are there any clues in the will?
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: callbrian on Friday 23 August 24 12:41 BST (UK)
Hi
Thanks for your reply.
Her husband was the beneficiary, he remarried in 1906, he didn’t die until 1944.
Brian
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 23 August 24 12:43 BST (UK)
What does it say in the will?
Was he the executor, rather than the sole beneficiary?
Only the will can provide that answer.
Probate only mentions the executor(s).
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: callbrian on Friday 23 August 24 13:14 BST (UK)
HUTCHINGS Charlotte Lucy of The Fox and Hounds Inn Cresswell-road The City Tilehurst Berkshire (wife of William James Hutchings) died 25 July 1904 Administratin (with Will) London 1o March to the said William James Hutchings beer
retailer. Effects £200.
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 23 August 24 13:28 BST (UK)
So no mention of any beneficiaries.
Any legal issues with regards to any assets, as well as any beneficiaries, will be mentioned in the will.
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: callbrian on Friday 23 August 24 13:31 BST (UK)
Thanks!
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: callbrian on Friday 23 August 24 13:57 BST (UK)

I have just found her husbands probate, he died in 1944, Probate granted Aug 1955.

HUTCHINGS William James of The City Tilehurst Berkshire died
2 February 1944 at The County Council Emergency Hospital
Wallingford Berkshire Administration Oxford 19 August to Annie Hutchings widow Effects £270
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: Jebber on Friday 23 August 24 14:05 BST (UK)
There are many reasons for a long delay. I have one where Probate was in 1836 but  the death had occurred in 1811. His wife and son were named as the executors and the only beneficiaries. The son was living abroad and the wife died in 1812, so it was not until the Son's own wife died in 1835 that he returned to England and could  apply for probate. Hence the long gap between the death and probate.

 I have another delayed probate because when the wife died and left a Will, her husband the executor was himself ill, it was only after his death that both his and his wife's went to probate.
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: callbrian on Friday 23 August 24 14:07 BST (UK)
Thanks!
Obviously a reason for the delays. Without a will, there may never be a solution.
Brian
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 23 August 24 14:13 BST (UK)
Have you purchased this will  :-\

HUTCHINGS Charlotte Lucy of The Fox and Hounds Inn Cresswell-road The City Tilehurst Berkshire (wife of William James Hutchings) died 25 July 1904 Administratin (with Will) London 1o March to the said William James Hutchings beer
retailer. Effects £200.
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: callbrian on Friday 23 August 24 14:38 BST (UK)
Hi Rosie,
No I haven’t. I am going to leave it to my cousin, to see what she wants to do.
Brian
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 23 August 24 14:39 BST (UK)
Thanks!
Obviously a reason for the delays. Without a will, there may never be a solution.
Brian

But, there was a will!
The probate entry says "Administratin (with Will)"

Quoting from a solicitor's website:
An application for letters of administration with the will annexed is usually made when there is a problem concerning the appointment of the executors in the will. There are several reasons why this type of grant may be needed:

    The appointment of the executor in the will may not have been correctly drafted;
    The will may be valid but the deceased did not appoint an executor;
    The executor may have died before the deceased or renounced;
    The executor may have been passed over by the courts.
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: melba_schmelba on Friday 23 August 24 15:31 BST (UK)
Thanks!
Obviously a reason for the delays. Without a will, there may never be a solution.
Brian

But, there was a will!
The probate entry says "Administratin (with Will)"

Quoting from a solicitor's website:
An application for letters of administration with the will annexed is usually made when there is a problem concerning the appointment of the executors in the will. There are several reasons why this type of grant may be needed:

    The appointment of the executor in the will may not have been correctly drafted;
    The will may be valid but the deceased did not appoint an executor;
    The executor may have died before the deceased or renounced;
    The executor may have been passed over by the courts.

Sometimes it can be because the person was in debt, so administration was granted to the principal creditor.
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: callbrian on Friday 23 August 24 15:40 BST (UK)
Yes, I know there was a Will. I meant I haven’t got it.
I’ve checked the National Archives for Wills and probate but haven’t found any entry for the will of either Charlotte or William Hutchings.
Brian
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 23 August 24 15:48 BST (UK)
You need to purchase them from the probate office where you found them on the indexes. 
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: callbrian on Friday 23 August 24 17:06 BST (UK)
Thanks Rosie,
Any idea of the cost. As I posted previously, I will need to see if my cousin is interested to know why the delay. Then she can decide if she wants to purchase them from London & Oxford.
Brian
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 23 August 24 17:09 BST (UK)
£1.50 per will last time I bought one!
And you buy them from the Probate Search website.

See the Help page:
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/help
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: callbrian on Friday 23 August 24 17:10 BST (UK)
Thank you!
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 23 August 24 17:14 BST (UK)
I ordered some last week from the probate office and they were instantly available to download
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: callbrian on Saturday 24 August 24 08:32 BST (UK)
Thanks Rosie,
I’ve had a quick check for both Charlotte and William but have not found their wills. Not sure that I have looked in the right place but entered the info I had. On the probate it only says with the Will on Charlottes probate.
Brian
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Saturday 24 August 24 09:35 BST (UK)
My g-g-grandfather moved from Devon to southern Ireland about 1854, leaving a will with three named executors, apparently farming colleagues.  He died in 1877 without any later will, by which time two of the three had died and the third soon followed.  Completing that probate took several years.

At the other end of the scale, I recently found a young woman who (accidentally?) fell downstairs and died some weeks later.  Husband got probate three weeks after death and remarried three months after that  :o
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: Tickettyboo on Saturday 24 August 24 13:54 BST (UK)
Thanks Rosie,
I’ve had a quick check for both Charlotte and William but have not found their wills. Not sure that I have looked in the right place but entered the info I had. On the probate it only says with the Will on Charlottes probate.
Brian

I tried for Charlotte's entry on the probate site too and failed to find it. I know from experience that the year of probate has sometimes been incorrectly used for the year of death, plus there was a workaround suggested a long time ago relating to inputting the name so the correct image turns up.

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk

Use just the following in the search boxes:
1st Page
Surname    (Hutchings
First name Charlotte Lucy)
Year of Death  1925

No, not a soldier

SAVE AND CONTINUE

2nd Page
Year of Probate  1925
SAVE AND CONTINUE

On the next page scroll to the bottom and click on the image that now shows and at that stage you can use the order form on the right  to input the correct info as it appears on the image and place an order (you'll get copies of both the will and the grant of adminstration, delivered by email) for £1.50

Using the same method to search for William's entry (opening bracket before his surname, closing bracket after his first names and use the year of probate as the year of death) also brings up the correct image so you can use those correct details to order his document - but in his case there is no will, just a grant of administration

NB its rare to have to go to these lengths, on the whole you just search and get the correct image to be able to complete the order form

Boo
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 24 August 24 13:57 BST (UK)
Thank you Boo  :).      Just returned here after lunch  ;)

Rosie
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: callbrian on Saturday 24 August 24 14:51 BST (UK)
Hi Boo,
Thanks for the info. With Charlotte it shows the probate entry as 1925. The same as I downloaded from Ancestry. I found nothing for William.
I assume the date of death is correct for Charlotte as William remarried in 1906.
Brian
Title: Re: Probate delay
Post by: callbrian on Thursday 29 August 24 09:32 BST (UK)
Hi All,
As a follow up I have now successfully found and ordered a copy of the will of Charlotte Hutchings.
Thanks to those who replied.
Regards
Brian