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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: callbrian on Friday 23 August 24 11:27 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I’m researching the family for a distant cousin, only recently found.
I found a death in 1904 in Reading Berkshire, then found the probate record dated March 1925.
I originally thought there was an error but on further investigation it appears to be correct.
Has anyone any ideas why this would be the case?
Her address in 1901 and address on the probate is the same.Fox and Hounds, City Road, Tilehurst.
Details are b 1864 Tilehurst, Charlotte Lucy Wickens m William James Hutchings, Reading.
Regards
Brian
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Maybe property, or other assets, were in joint names?
And they had to wait for the other party to pass away.
Are there any clues in the will?
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Hi
Thanks for your reply.
Her husband was the beneficiary, he remarried in 1906, he didn’t die until 1944.
Brian
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What does it say in the will?
Was he the executor, rather than the sole beneficiary?
Only the will can provide that answer.
Probate only mentions the executor(s).
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HUTCHINGS Charlotte Lucy of The Fox and Hounds Inn Cresswell-road The City Tilehurst Berkshire (wife of William James Hutchings) died 25 July 1904 Administratin (with Will) London 1o March to the said William James Hutchings beer
retailer. Effects £200.
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So no mention of any beneficiaries.
Any legal issues with regards to any assets, as well as any beneficiaries, will be mentioned in the will.
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Thanks!
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I have just found her husbands probate, he died in 1944, Probate granted Aug 1955.
HUTCHINGS William James of The City Tilehurst Berkshire died
2 February 1944 at The County Council Emergency Hospital
Wallingford Berkshire Administration Oxford 19 August to Annie Hutchings widow Effects £270
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There are many reasons for a long delay. I have one where Probate was in 1836 but the death had occurred in 1811. His wife and son were named as the executors and the only beneficiaries. The son was living abroad and the wife died in 1812, so it was not until the Son's own wife died in 1835 that he returned to England and could apply for probate. Hence the long gap between the death and probate.
I have another delayed probate because when the wife died and left a Will, her husband the executor was himself ill, it was only after his death that both his and his wife's went to probate.
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Thanks!
Obviously a reason for the delays. Without a will, there may never be a solution.
Brian
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Have you purchased this will :-\
HUTCHINGS Charlotte Lucy of The Fox and Hounds Inn Cresswell-road The City Tilehurst Berkshire (wife of William James Hutchings) died 25 July 1904 Administratin (with Will) London 1o March to the said William James Hutchings beer
retailer. Effects £200.
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Hi Rosie,
No I haven’t. I am going to leave it to my cousin, to see what she wants to do.
Brian
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Thanks!
Obviously a reason for the delays. Without a will, there may never be a solution.
Brian
But, there was a will!
The probate entry says "Administratin (with Will)"
Quoting from a solicitor's website:
An application for letters of administration with the will annexed is usually made when there is a problem concerning the appointment of the executors in the will. There are several reasons why this type of grant may be needed:
The appointment of the executor in the will may not have been correctly drafted;
The will may be valid but the deceased did not appoint an executor;
The executor may have died before the deceased or renounced;
The executor may have been passed over by the courts.
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Thanks!
Obviously a reason for the delays. Without a will, there may never be a solution.
Brian
But, there was a will!
The probate entry says "Administratin (with Will)"
Quoting from a solicitor's website:
An application for letters of administration with the will annexed is usually made when there is a problem concerning the appointment of the executors in the will. There are several reasons why this type of grant may be needed:
The appointment of the executor in the will may not have been correctly drafted;
The will may be valid but the deceased did not appoint an executor;
The executor may have died before the deceased or renounced;
The executor may have been passed over by the courts.
Sometimes it can be because the person was in debt, so administration was granted to the principal creditor.
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Yes, I know there was a Will. I meant I haven’t got it.
I’ve checked the National Archives for Wills and probate but haven’t found any entry for the will of either Charlotte or William Hutchings.
Brian
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You need to purchase them from the probate office where you found them on the indexes.
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Thanks Rosie,
Any idea of the cost. As I posted previously, I will need to see if my cousin is interested to know why the delay. Then she can decide if she wants to purchase them from London & Oxford.
Brian
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£1.50 per will last time I bought one!
And you buy them from the Probate Search website.
See the Help page:
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/help
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Thank you!
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I ordered some last week from the probate office and they were instantly available to download
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Thanks Rosie,
I’ve had a quick check for both Charlotte and William but have not found their wills. Not sure that I have looked in the right place but entered the info I had. On the probate it only says with the Will on Charlottes probate.
Brian
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My g-g-grandfather moved from Devon to southern Ireland about 1854, leaving a will with three named executors, apparently farming colleagues. He died in 1877 without any later will, by which time two of the three had died and the third soon followed. Completing that probate took several years.
At the other end of the scale, I recently found a young woman who (accidentally?) fell downstairs and died some weeks later. Husband got probate three weeks after death and remarried three months after that :o
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Thanks Rosie,
I’ve had a quick check for both Charlotte and William but have not found their wills. Not sure that I have looked in the right place but entered the info I had. On the probate it only says with the Will on Charlottes probate.
Brian
I tried for Charlotte's entry on the probate site too and failed to find it. I know from experience that the year of probate has sometimes been incorrectly used for the year of death, plus there was a workaround suggested a long time ago relating to inputting the name so the correct image turns up.
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk
Use just the following in the search boxes:
1st Page
Surname (Hutchings
First name Charlotte Lucy)
Year of Death 1925
No, not a soldier
SAVE AND CONTINUE
2nd Page
Year of Probate 1925
SAVE AND CONTINUE
On the next page scroll to the bottom and click on the image that now shows and at that stage you can use the order form on the right to input the correct info as it appears on the image and place an order (you'll get copies of both the will and the grant of adminstration, delivered by email) for £1.50
Using the same method to search for William's entry (opening bracket before his surname, closing bracket after his first names and use the year of probate as the year of death) also brings up the correct image so you can use those correct details to order his document - but in his case there is no will, just a grant of administration
NB its rare to have to go to these lengths, on the whole you just search and get the correct image to be able to complete the order form
Boo
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Thank you Boo :). Just returned here after lunch ;)
Rosie
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Hi Boo,
Thanks for the info. With Charlotte it shows the probate entry as 1925. The same as I downloaded from Ancestry. I found nothing for William.
I assume the date of death is correct for Charlotte as William remarried in 1906.
Brian
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Hi All,
As a follow up I have now successfully found and ordered a copy of the will of Charlotte Hutchings.
Thanks to those who replied.
Regards
Brian