RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: heilanlassie on Thursday 15 August 24 11:35 BST (UK)
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Following a dna test, I have been matched with a potential 2nd/3rd cousin on my paternal line.
My father was an Edmund Chilla (sometimes spelled Chyla or Chylla). He was born in 1907 in Montawy, Swiece, Pomorze.
My grandparents were Franciszek Chyla and Julianna Manikowska. My grandfather was born on 16 December 1864 in Milewo.
Following the paternal line, my great-grandfather was Johann Chyla, married to an Ernestine Merker.
The father of the guy who dna matches with me was a Bernard Chyla, born in 1928. Apparently he had two elder brothers, Jan and Frank, who were killed in the war, as well as their parents. There was also an older sister, Anna, who had married before the war and moved to Gdansk (my father's family lived in Gdynia and Gdansk at the beginning of the war).
Going back to the guy who dna matches with me (I don't want to name him, out of respect) tells me that his grandparents were Jan Chyla and Franciszek Syczepanski. The grandfather, Jan, had a brother called Joseph, and he believes that they had a family farm near Gniew.
How on earth can I move this research forward to find out just how I am related to this guy?
Any help will be very, very much appreciated.
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Is the "potential 2nd / 3rd cousin" an estimate from Ancestry (or whatever DNA testing service you used)? I have found my actual relationship and Ancestry's estimate can be wildly different. How many cMs is the match?
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Is the "potential 2nd / 3rd cousin" an estimate from Ancestry (or whatever DNA testing service you used)? I have found my actual relationship and Ancestry's estimate can be wildly different. How many cMs is the match?
I did my test with Ancestry and I share 100cM, 1% shared dna with this guy, and it says that he could be a 2nd - 3rd cousin.
I hope you are not telling me that in fact we aren't related, and only share a surname. I would be so disappointed.
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for 100cm DNA Painter gives probabilities
38% Half 2C, 2C1R, Half 1C2R, 1C3R
30% 3C, Half 2C1R, 2C2R, Half 1C3R
20% Half 3C 3C1R Half 2C2R 2C3R
The remaining 12% split between some closer and some more distant relationships.
If your family and the matches' family came from the same location you could have connections in more than one line
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for 100cm DNA Painter gives probabilities
38% Half 2C, 2C1R, Half 1C2R, 1C3R
30% 3C, Half 2C1R, 2C2R, Half 1C3R
20% Half 3C 3C1R Half 2C2R 2C3R
The remaining 12% split between some closer and some more distant relationships.
If your family and the matches' family came from the same location you could have connections in more than one line
I wish I knew what any of that meant ??? ::) :-[
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This website is very useful in explaining relationships and probabilities of relationships from no of cMs match
https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4
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Second cousins share a set of great-grandparents. Since you know your great grandparents, the next step is to find out your match's great grandparents. If he doesn't know yet, then you or he will have to do the research.
Since you match a surname, I'd focus on that line first, so try to find out the parents of his grandfather, Jan Chyla. If they are Johann Chyla and Ernestine Merker, you're done and congratulations. From the other direction, try to find out all the children of your great grandparents Johann and Ernestine. Maybe one is named Jan and maybe that is your match's ancestor. *
As LizzieL mentioned though, if all the families came from the same area, you might be second cousins through a different line, not the Chylas. So you will need to research the other lines as well. Basically you need to research his family tree as well as you have done your own.
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DNA helps to identify where to look for common ancestors and can confirm or disprove the paper trail research, but DNA results alone can't name the common ancestor.
Edited to add: * If your great grandparents don't match, then work backward another generation to see if you and he are third cousins. If the records just aren't there, then you just resign yourself to that fact and know that if they were you'd probably identify the common ancestor. That is the case with my own Irish ancestors - the DNA and the paper trail point to a common ancestor for me and a few others, and we can pretty much tell that that person lived about a generation or two before the records become available.
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One of the possibilities is half second cousins so you have to check if your greatgrandfather had a second marriage
Your match could be a descendant of your great grandfather but not your great grandmother
Or he could be a generation removed from you ie your second cousins son
It seems an amount that's reasonably
Close to work out
Good luck
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This website is very useful in explaining relationships and probabilities of relationships from no of cMs match
https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4
A very interesting website - thank you for sharing.
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Second cousins share a set of great-grandparents. Since you know your great grandparents, the next step is to find out your match's great grandparents. If he doesn't know yet, then you or he will have to do the research.
Since you match a surname, I'd focus on that line first, so try to find out the parents of his grandfather, Jan Chyla. If they are Johann Chyla and Ernestine Merker, you're done and congratulations. From the other direction, try to find out all the children of your great grandparents Johann and Ernestine. Maybe one is named Jan and maybe that is your match's ancestor. *
As LizzieL mentioned though, if all the families came from the same area, you might be second cousins through a different line, not the Chylas. So you will need to research the other lines as well. Basically you need to research his family tree as well as you have done your own.
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DNA helps to identify where to look for common ancestors and can confirm or disprove the paper trail research, but DNA results alone can't name the common ancestor.
Edited to add: * If your great grandparents don't match, then work backward another generation to see if you and he are third cousins. If the records just aren't there, then you just resign yourself to that fact and know that if they were you'd probably identify the common ancestor. That is the case with my own Irish ancestors - the DNA and the paper trail point to a common ancestor for me and a few others, and we can pretty much tell that that person lived about a generation or two before the records become available.
Unfortunately, the father of my dna match was orphaned at the age of 9, and didn't know much of his family background. He died in 1998, and my dna match has no one left to answer questions.
It's so frustrating.
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Modified
Sorry repeated myself
Another of the possibilities is second cousins once removed
Your match could be a descendant of your great great grandparents
But could be a generation removed from you ie
2c1R second cousins a generation apart
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As your father's are 21 years apart it seems likely that they come from different biological generations
Unless they come from large families
For me most likely scenario is that your great grandparents are his great great grandparents
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As your father's are 21 years apart it seems likely that they come from different biological generations
Unless they come from large families
For me most likely scenario is that your great grandparents are his great great great grandparents
I thought that might be a possibility as well, or his 2 x great grandparents, so a x x one times removed cousin
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Heilen
I found your tree on ancestry
And others with franciskaek chilla but different spouses
More questions which might help in search
What religion were they
Did any of you or your relatives matches live in different countries or at a time when the towns were classified as a different country
Is there a tradition of passing names down to grandchildren ?
I recommend using different spellings for some ancestors so they show on name searches .use the " also known as " tag for the one you prefer
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Heilen
I found your tree on ancestry
And others with franciskaek chilla but different spouses
More questions which might help in search
What religion were they
Did any of you or your relatives matches live in different countries or at a time when the towns were classified as a different country
Is there a tradition of passing names down to grandchildren ?
I recommend using different spellings for some ancestors so they show on name searches .use the " also known as " tag for the one you prefer
Yes, I have two trees on Ancestry - one is my maternal (Scottish) line, and the other is my paternal (Polish) line.
My father only had one spouse, listed on my paternal tree (Agnieska Anhalt) - he wasn't married to my mother (I am illegitimate, but I was given my father's name on my birth certificate)
My father was Roman Catholic, as am I, and I presume his ancestors would have been the same.
Poland is a very Catholic country, even to this day.
I believe that when my father was born, the place he was born in was Prussia, and became Poland in 1920.
I'm afraid that like my dna match, I cannot answer many questions about my ancestors.
I only discovered the existence of my paternal family in 2011.
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I'm sure that DNA will help you
Have both you and your match linked your trees to your results with yourself as home person
If you add a chyla ancestor to the top of your tree ..with just the surname some thru line suggestions may get thrown up .
Also it helps if you transfer your results to gedmatch too ..extra possibilities of finding mutual relatives .
It helps if you know approximate dates that your father's left their birth country
I see your father was the youngest of many children so my theory of biological generation differences may not be valid
It's good that you have a photo of him
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If you also take a My Heritage DNA test you might find some useful matches on your paternal line.
I know that many people poo poo My Heritage for various reasons, but in my experience My Heritage is useful for Eastern European heritage, especially if they still live in Europe.
A quick example from one of my own Polish ancestors …. On Ancestry. myself and a known distant cousin have two only two common matches. On My Heritage we share over 100 (I stopped counting after getting past 100).
Just something for you to consider ….
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If you also take a My Heritage DNA test you might find some useful matches on your paternal line.
I know that many people poo poo My Heritage for various reasons, but in my experience My Heritage is useful for Eastern European heritage, especially if they still live in Europe.
A quick example from one of my own Polish ancestors …. On Ancestry. myself and a known distant cousin have two only two common matches. On My Heritage we share over 100 (I stopped counting after getting past 100).
Just something for you to consider ….
There is no need to take a My Heritage DNA test.
The Op can download a copy of their DNA from Ancestry and upload the file to My Heritage.
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Hi. Thank you.
Can I ask what OP mean?
Annie
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The original poster of the message = OP.
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Original Poster, I so hate it when people use abbreviations without first defining them, unless they are really common ones like FBI or LASER or BMW.
Zaph
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If you also take a My Heritage DNA test you might find some useful matches on your paternal line.
I know that many people poo poo My Heritage for various reasons, but in my experience My Heritage is useful for Eastern European heritage, especially if they still live in Europe.
A quick example from one of my own Polish ancestors …. On Ancestry. myself and a known distant cousin have two only two common matches. On My Heritage we share over 100 (I stopped counting after getting past 100).
Just something for you to consider ….
Thank you for that information.
I didn't need to take another dna test, I downloaded the test I had done with Ancestry, then uploaded it to MyHeritage - and yes, there are more matches showing from there, mostly in Germany and Poland. Some of them seem to be very close matches, and although I have sent messages to the people I am matched with, I haven't had any replies - but I wait, and hope.