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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: fletch001 on Monday 12 August 24 17:23 BST (UK)
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Good Afternoon all,
As usual, asking for any help which may help in my research. I am trying to trace a William Fletcher born around 1563/4 supposedly from Lenton, Nottinghamshire. He married Anna Finnye (Finney) in Oct 1587 at Lenton Priory.
Trying to go further back on both families and also to trace their children.
I have found their wedding information but all other information is very sketchy or non existant.
Thanking you all for any information anyone can give
Kind Regards
Mike Fletcher
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Do you know what social class they were in? Gentry, yeomen, labourers?
There was a Fletcher family in Stoke Bardolph, Notts, on the other side of Nottingham, about 6 miles from Lenton.
In 1554 in Common Pleas, there is Fletcher, Robert, of Stoke Bardolf, Notts, gent; Margaret, his wife
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40no1157Cty.htm
original
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT3/M/CP40no1157/bCP40no1157dorses/IMG_1524.htm
This was an indenture, for land near Stoke Bardolph.
In the Visitation of Nottingham there's a Francis Fletcher of Stoke Bardolph who married Francis Molineux. Probably their son Robert, Bottom (right side):
https://archive.org/details/visitationscoun01britgoog/page/n84/mode/2up?view=theater
Robert must have died before 1580. Here is a record in Common Pleas where Francis Fletcher of Gedling is the executor of Robert Fletcher of Stoke Bardolff.
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40/1373-4:_K-Z
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Vance,
I have a possible death for William Fletcher, sketchy as stated, for Feb 1636. His possible father was William Fletcher Esquire, in those days it was below a Knight and above a Gentleman.
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All,
This is the William Fletcher a lot of Americans have in their FT's related to Robert Fletcher of Concord Mass USA, one of the first settlers. Some also have William as the son of Sir Lancelot Fletcher and Lady Ellen Patrickson, but that has been disproved by ancestors of that line.
Hope this helps
Mike
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I personally discount other people's family trees when going this far back and instead work solely on primary sources. Incorrect information is copied from tree to tree over and over again until it becomes so muddled that it actually becomes detrimental to the family historian, rather than beneficial.
As Vance Mead has already mentioned, the social class of the family will basically determine how possible it is to research further back. At this point, you are relying on the family having had assets, in the hope that they distributed them via wills and were included in local land records etc. Unfortunately, a lot of documents this old have been lost to time as well :'(
Are you descended from this couple? If so, you presumably have a baptism record for at least 1 of their children or some more evidence than you have included to suggest descent?
There is a burial for an Anna Fletcher, wife of William, on 13th August 1606 in Lenton, and then a month later a burial for a William Fletcher on 13th September. Unfortunately, I can only view a transcript so not sure if there is extra information.
See page 5 of this:
http://hausegenealogy.com/source/Article_Finney.pdf
And included within is a transcription of the will of Anna's mother, which mentions Anna's children by William (Henry, Alice, Margery and Anne Fletcher). I can not view this will myself, but I see no reason it should not be an accurate representation of the document.
Interestingly, Anna's mother also died in August of 1606, with her will being written only days before the burial of her daughter, so I am wondering if there was some sort of deadly illness going round.
Queenie :)
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I have had a similar problem with Lenton, and you have probably worked out that there are no Lenton baptisms before 1598.
One interesting source is a thesis: Lenton after the Priory: a survey of life in Lenton betwen 1540 and 1620 ... by Julia Neville. It makes good use of the records of the Archdeaconry of Nottingham's court. I had a quick look for Fletcher. The only reference I spotted was on a page showing Lenton families 1540-1589, kinship by marriage. Fletcher is connected to Finnye, as you would have predicted, but also to Rodes, for some reason.
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Good Morning All,
Queenie, thank you for your reply, you are correct in following FT's, i do not copy any of them, I take a couple of hints from them if I am stuck, then investigate myself. Hence investigating William Fletcher and Anne Finnye (Finney). I have read the pdf of the Finney line which makes that line very solid in facts, its the Fletcher line which is causing problems.
Yes, i am related very far down the line from my cousins in Canada. I will keep going for a while yet on my research.
Kind Regards
Mike
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Hello Watson,
Thank you for your reply, i will certainly try to find this thesis. Yes, like a few other Counties, there are some with no baptisms etc with a few years missing or lost.
Many thanks
Mike
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The same thesis notes a 1598 register entry in which Edward Finnye was described as a miller.
I have the impression that the Rodes family was quite low in the social scale, since they made frequent appearances in the Archdeacon's court for such things as slander, being a scold, drunkennesss and fornication. Of course, impressions can be wrong ...
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Hello Watson,
Thanks for your reply, i have searched for that thesis but no luck on Google etc. It is interesting to know about the Rhodes family, something new to me.
Regards
Mike
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It was a University of Nottingham thesis, 1986, author Julia Neville, M.A.
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Hi Watson,
Typed the search into University of Nottingham and nothing came up under Julia Neville, unless i am doing something wrong, it may have been taken down?
Regards
Mike
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Mike, you seem to be expecting that the thesis is online, but I don't know. If you are keen to read it, perhaps the best hope would be to contact the university.
I seem to recall that Lenton Local History Group had some kind of contact with the author, but that was many years ago. You could try them.
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Hi Watson,
Sorry, i did, no worries
Mike
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Heh funny enough I come from what were the Fletchers of the North/South Leverton (Retford) area of Nottinghamshire. Currently stuck on a William Fletcher of the North/South Leverton (Retford) who died in the 18th/19th century so have not even gone back this far yet.
Apparently Fletchers never made arrows (it was a job title but there are no records of any of them having the surname 'Fletcher'). All the Fletchers descend from a Jean de la Fleche, a Norman lord of La Fleche in France (his father was lord Lancalin I de Beaugency).
Ben Fletcher
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Actually there were very many people named Fletcher (spelled Fleccher, Flecchere or Flecher in the 15th century) who were fletchers. Here are a few in the court of Common Pleas, index for Hilary term 1453.
Fleccher, Richard, of Rothewell, Nhants, fletcher
Fleccher, Richard, of Agmondesham, (Amersham), Bucks, fletcher
Fleccher, Thomas, of Leicester, fletcher
Fleccher, William, of Selby, Yorks, fletcher
Fleccher, Geoffrey, of Coventry, fletcher
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40/768
You will find many more Flecchers who were Fletchers indexed here:
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/Main_Page
They were not all descended from a Norman lord.
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This is what I read, been trying to get a source though.
The Fletcher’s are a very early Noble family with very strong Royal family ties to the Franks, Norsemen, French, English and Scottish Crowns, and a few other countries like Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Spain etc.
Geoffrey Plantagenet, Count of Anjou, known as " Handsome " born August 24, 1113 in Le Mans, France, died September 7, 1151 in Chateau du Loir, France. He is the father of King Henry II of England.
House of Anjou, House of Plantagenet, House of Lancaster, House of York
A Dynasty of seventeen Kings from Henry II through Richard III, who was killed while fighting the outnumbered forces of Henry Tudor in the Battle of Bosworth Field on August 22, 1485. That began the Tudor Dynasty.
Jean ( John, Johannes ) de Beaugency, Seigneur de La Fleche was born November 1, 1030, died in 1097 in St Aubon, Alpes de Haute ( Cote d'Azur ) Provence, France. He was a Norman French noble of Sarthe, France, who served under and was granted lands by King William I, the conqueror of England in 1066, Duke of Normandy.
Jean was the youngest son of Lancelin I de Beaugency and Mathilde de Chateau du Loir. Jean married Paula du Maine, daughter of Herbert I, Count of Maine. Jean and Paula are the parents of Helias ( Elias I ) de La Fleche, Count of Maine born about 1059 in Maine et Loire, Pays de La Loire, France, died July 11, 1110 in Angers, Maine et Loire, Anjou, France, who married the Countess Matilda, daughter of Gervais II, Lord of Chateau du Loir and they had a daughter Ermengarde de La Fleche, she married Foulques V ( Fulk V ), 9th. Count de Anjou, who became King of Jerusalem in 1131 following the First Crusade. They are the parents of Geoffrey Plantagenet, he married the Empress Matilda, daughter of King Henry I of England ( son of King William I ) in 1128. This was a very dangerous alliance for King Louis VI of France and would prove so during the reign of his son and successor, King Louis VII. Geoffrey Plantagenet was knighted by his father in law King Henry I. Geoffrey Plantagenet and Empress Matilda's son was King Henry II of England, who is the great great grandson of Jean de Beaugency, Seigneur de La Fleche. King Henry II married Eleanor ( Elena ) of Aquitaine, who was Queen consort of France from 1137 to 1152 and England from 1154 to 1189 and Duchess of Aquitaine in her own right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_VII_of_France.
Jean de Beaugency, Seigneur de La Fleche appears to be the forefather of all the Fletcher's of the British Isles and beyond, he is of Norsemen ( Viking ) descendant.
Fletcher's can be found in France, England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland.
The Fletcher's were first established in the Forest of Hutton in York, England. Near the Village of Skelton in a field is the small Church of St. James, recorded as far back as 1291 as the Church in the Green Field. A fragment of a Norman Cross is preserved within the church and many memorials act as reminders of the influence of the Fletcher's and Vane's over the centuries.
One of Jean de La Fleche’s descendants, Sir Bernard Fletcher ( possibly the son of Helias ( Elias I ) de La Fleche ), moved north and received lands in Roxburghshire by King David I of Scotland, who reigned from April or May 1124 to May 24, 1153. They later moved further north to Aberdeen and were some of the first settlers in Glenorchy, making an alliance with the Scottish Stewart's ( Stuart's ) and later the Campbell's after several ordeals, who's clan dominated the Glenorchy region.
( Note: King David I of Scotland, is the half brother of Matilda ( Edith ) of Scotland, first wife of King Henry I of England, son of King William I of England, the Conqueror of 1066. King David I and Matilda of Scotland are the children of King Malcolm III of Scotland. King Henry I of England and Matilda of Scotland’s daughter Empress Matilda married Geoffrey Plantagenet, Count of Anjou, who are the parents of King Henry II of England. Geoffrey Plantagenet is the great grandson of Jean de La Fleche and Paula du Maine.)
The next oldest records of Fletcher's found in England as of now, are of Robert le Flecher in 1203, in the “ Assize Court Rolls of Staffordshire ”, during the reign of King John, known as “ Lackland ”, who reigned from April 6, 1199 to his death in 1216.
Plea Roll 82 for Staffordshire 1244 to 1250 Staff.
There is an ancient town in France name La Fleche
Fletcher is an occupational name of the makers and sellers of arrows.
Which means a person who makes and sells arrows, had the title as a Fletcher, it does not mean that a person who makes and sells arrows had the surname Fletcher. All of the early Fletcher's found are being proven to be descendants of Jean de La Fleche.
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You can't draw a straight line connecting a thousand years of history. I just listed five Fletchers (surname) who were Fletchers (occupation). There are hundreds more.
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As I said when I first posted, this was "supposedly". I don't know the source as I got this from a historian who has been doing Genealogy 30 years, his surname is also Fletcher, so you would hope he had a ventured interest in getting it correct. He is American, so maybe I should have rolled my eyes and said, 'Americans' in the condescending way we British do things.
Fleche is Arrow in French there is no equivalent of 'Fletcher' as Arrower isn't a word. There is also a town called La Flech. Perhaps it's Fléchère, as a Jean Guillaume de La Fléchère (1729–1785) anglicized his name to John William Fletcher. Also I am sure people changed thier professions, maybe not as easy as one does today but accidents happen, peoples circumstances changed. Can't Fletch anymore if you lost a hand or a few fingers in a accident.
Personally, I would rather not be French decent or even have a French influenced surname picked for my ancestor 1000 years ago by some entitled bastard.
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Mike, you seem to be expecting that the thesis is online, but I don't know. If you are keen to read it, perhaps the best hope would be to contact the university.
I seem to recall that Lenton Local History Group had some kind of contact with the author, but that was many years ago. You could try them.
All postgrad theses have a copy deposited with the British Library. Unfortunately they are still affected by a cyber attack, but someone there should be able to help.
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I can't guarantee that it was a postgrad thesis and wouldn't want you to waste your time if it was not.
I think the best point of contact is Lenton Local History Group, which is how I got my copy. If they can't help, I don't know what to suggest.
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I did an author search at the British Library and nothing relevant came up. As you say, it might not have been a postgrad thesis.
Good luck with the local history soc.
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Hello all,
Still stuck on this one but i will try to get in touch with the Lenton history group and see if they can help.
Regarding the Fletcher Name, I have been researching for around 35 years, yes i have made many mistakes and learned from them. I have also found many a document, some snippets of which has been posted by Delabane.
Here is something I had to translate from french using google translate, Jean de la Fleche was possibly decended from the Fletchers from Scotland who went on the first crusade. On their way back they decided to settle in France, hence Jean de la Fleche.
Interestingly, I also found that although de la Fleche helped fund William the Conquerer's conquest of England, they never set foot in England until the 1100's.
Please correct me if i am wrong, i will try to find the document again which is in French and post if I find it.
Kind Regards all
Mike Fletcher
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Hello all,
Still stuck on this one but i will try to get in touch with the Lenton history group and see if they can help.
Regarding the Fletcher Name, I have been researching for around 35 years, yes i have made many mistakes and learned from them. I have also found many a document, some snippets of which has been posted by Delabane.
Here is something I had to translate from french using google translate, Jean de la Fleche was possibly descended from the Fletchers from Scotland who went on the first crusade. On their way back they decided to settle in France, hence Jean de la Fleche.
Interestingly, I also found that although de la Fleche helped fund William the Conquerer's conquest of England, they never set foot in England until the 1100's.
Please correct me if i am wrong, i will try to find the document again which is in French and post if I find it.
Kind Regards all
Mike Fletcher
Interesting,
I read that a Scottish Fletcher (possibly descended from a Sir Bernard Fletcher, who himself was descended from Jean de la Fleche/Elias I de la Fleche) had gone over to France and they had become de La Fléchère (also known as La Fléchère de Beauregard) settled in the county of Savoy in the thirteenth century and later became Counts of Alex and Veyrier-Châtillon. They resided at castle of Beauregard until 2004. In the 18th century Jean Guillaume de La Fléchère (1729–1785), Anglican priest, theologian and Methodist saint immigrated to Britain and anglicized his name to John William Fletcher.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famille_de_La_Fl%C3%A9ch%C3%A8re
I have read that the first recording of what became the 'Fletcher' surname was from Jean de la Fleche. He was born Jean de Beaugency, where his father was Seigneur (lord) Lancelin I de Beaugency. His older brother, Lancelin II was given Beaugency and Jean was given La Fleche (they are about 90 miles apart) and became its Seigneur.
He is then referred to as Jean de la Fleche, to reflect the town of La Fleche which is what the Normans often did after the Conquest when they got land in England, they often changed their surname to reflect this. Sometimes they changed it to reflect the land they had come from in Normandy, eg Seymour surname is from St. Maur, in Normandy. Jean de la Fletch was given land in England by King William I and supposedly some of his or his sons (Elias I de la Fleche, Count of Maine) dependents (one being a Sir Bernard Fletcher) settle in northern England and later Scotland, where they are given land by King David of Scotland. Some of them however stay in France.
I am stuck finding out the father of my own great great great grandfather (1770s) is, so have not even begone to go this far back! I just find Medieval history more interesting then Victorian! :)
Ben Fletcher
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Hi Ben,
Thats the one, i have started having a look for you and have posted on your Fletchers of North/South Leverton. I will see what i can find.
Regards
Mike Fletcher
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Hi Ben,
Thats the one, i have started having a look for you and have posted on your Fletchers of North/South Leverton. I will see what i can find.
Regards
Mike Fletcher
Many thanks for your assistance! I been stuck on this for 2 years so a fresh set of eyes might see something I missed!
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Hello Mike,
If you are interested in the Beaugency family, who appear to be the progenitors of the Fletchers, there is a good website:
https://routledgetextbooks.com/textbooks/medievalportal/9781138677098.php
There is also a book Medieval Lives C.1000-1292 The World of the Beaugency Family by Amy Livingstone. Ralph I de Beaugency (Jean de la Fleche's nephew) was a famous crusader in the first crusades (it was a massacre really) who married the niece of the King of France due to his reputation.
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Interesting fact Fletcher surname was the most common in Nottinghamshire and Lancashire.
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Hi there fletch001,
If you've not yet managed to get hold of the dissertation by Julia Neville, and would still like to do that, perhaps you could try contacting her directly using these details (which Aunty Google helped me find):
University of Exeter:
Dr Julia Neville (PhD University of Exeter) is a Honorary Research Fellow in the History Department at the University of Exeter.
Email: J.Neville@exeter.ac.uk
The same information about her position is given by:
University of Exeter Press
Devon History Society
academia.edu
researchgate.net
Her Linkedin page:
Dr Julia Neville: Exeter University and Devon History Society
The Devon and Exeter Institution
&
The South West Heritage Trust
Both say she can be contacted at: j.f.neville@btinternet.com or via the Devon History Society website.
NB: I think all the above information must be pretty up-to-date because she recently (17 July 2024) gave a talk at the Royal Albert Memorial Museum in Exeter.
So, luckily, there are at least three ways to make contact with her...hope this helps!
theirchild
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Hello All,
sorry for the delay in replies, just back from holiday. I am back up and running again. Thank you theirchild for the contact addresses for Dr Julia Neville, i will certainly try to get in touch, this could be a important document.
Regards
Mike
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I've always thought that in some instances, Fletcher might be an anglicisation of Fleischer (obviously not in every case!); or more directly derived from Old English flæscmangere "butcher".
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Hello Annie,
Yes, you are correct in both instances, they are both possible.
Regards
Mike