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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: peggypatch on Monday 12 August 24 14:44 BST (UK)
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Has anyone come across the word wortle before? I found it in an overseer's account book in the 1790s:
paid Mr Smith wortle girl 1s per week
paid Mr Smith wortle with girl Warns 1s per week
Thanks for any help
Peggy
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In the OED there is: An instrument used in drawing wire.
But that doesn't seem to fit.
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Yes, I should have mentioned that. I agree that doesn't make sense in this instance.
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What was the overseer overseeing? Can you post a photo or a link to the wortle bit?
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I don't have a copy of it. It was just among the usual disbursements of money in an overseers' account. Mr Smith was collecting poor relief for caring for a few poor children/orphans, it is just the addition of the word wortle beyond the usual "paid John Smith for the boy Ellis" that you would usually see among the payments. This is in Norfolk.
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"Whortleberry" is a a word used for various kinds of small wild berries, eg bilberries. So maybe a wortle girl was picking berries.
Drosybont
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I couldn't see anything that seems likely in Joseph Wright's Dialect Dictionary.
It's a pity you don't have the original - I'm just wondering if the word appears against anyone else. If it doesn't, could it be a surname, eg "Paid John Smith for the Wortle girl" etc? And where you have "paid Mr Smith wortle with girl Warns 1s per week" could that be referring to two separate girls?
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If it's from overseers accounts somewhere in Norfolk, then it might be online on FamilySearch, and maybe elsewhere as well.
But without knowing where...
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The only word that I can find that others haven't mentioned is originally from the Dutch- wortel meaning carrot or, possibly, other root veg ???
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Which may be connected with mangel-wurzel (from German) - a root vegetable largely used since the 18th cent. for animal feed, but can be consumed by humans.
As a surname there are only three entries in FreeBMD, which suggests there is another more widely used spelling.
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https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/wort
wort - a liquid produced from the grain when making beer or whiskey
Could wortle have been a specific occupation in beer brewing?
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On surnames, the Norfolk FHS database has a handful of entries for Wortle, Wurtle and Wartle, and a much larger number for Wortley.
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I would really try track down the original document and look at it. Transcriptions are notoriously unreliable.
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Slightly off topic, as children we loved to watch Mr.Hughes a farmer ,chopping mangold worzels or wurzels, in a machine, for the sheep and cows in winter .
He would give us each a chunk to eat .
It was hard like a carrot ,sweet and crunchy ,pale orange in colour rather like a swede.Good when the hay was having to be used carefully.
A variety of beetroot so probably related to sugar beet.
They were stored in a ‘ clamp” on the ground,first a layer of straw then .mangolds, more straw etc in many layers .
Finally a thick lay er of straw then a topping of earth ,all then covered with turf.
They stayed fresh throughout the Winter ,like the home grown potatoes ,carrots ,turnips and swedes stored in the same way.
The “ clamp” was accessed from the side ,to keep the layers intact and protected throughout the winter.Oooh, I could just eat a piece .
They all stored very well.
Didn’t our forebears know a thing or two!
Viktoria.
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Getting back on topic....
Does anyone have access to this?
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That's a great find!...
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Sadly, it was just the OCR messing up the street (Walsworth) with the ad below. :-[
I didn't snip the whole list, but it is the only ad in that issue that states no window washing required.
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I still can't find the definition of the word!
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I think Drosybont might be on track with the "whortle berry picking" in reply #5.
There are numerous mentions in the newspapers about these berries, and for the most part, they spell it "wortle", and commonly it was children picking them when school was out. It was seasonal though, so if Mr. Smith was paying her for more than whatever the season was, it wouldn't work out.
The attached uses the spelling "whortle", but most mentions drop the "h".
Theses whortles sound like they mainly grow on moors; not sure where Mr. Smith lived?
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I don't know...Going back to the Oakland advert,it say's a whortle girl is needed for housework.
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Whortleberry is a regional name for the Whinberry ,often mis pronounced as Wimberry.
They grow on Whins , strong shortish springy stalks .
In Shropshire it was a way of augmenting the family income.
Women and children went up the hills and picked baskets full.
A trader would be waiting for the pickers who would expect a price .sadly that often had dropped from the one promised before the women set out ,a real cheat.
The money earned bought new boots for the older children whose outgrown ones were passed down to siblings , and candles, lamp oil and new wicks, for the dark nights.
Small baskets were used as they are very tender and squash easily.
The Stiperstones Range was very rich and also for cranberries,not the Ocean Spray sort,they need water in which to grow.
A bright red berry which grew among the Whinberries on stalks with very different leaves to the Whinberry ones.They are lovely but need oodles of sugar.I used to get just enough to make a small saucer tart for my auntie who loved them.
So traders would hire girls to,pick Whinberries ,probably jam making firms .
I can remember that up to the early 1950’s.
After that Polish one’s were imported ,but often were very wet, they are tender little fruit.
Viktoria.
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I don't know...Going back to the Oakland advert,it say's a whortle girl is needed for housework.
Which turned out to be an OCR error
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I don't know what OCR stands for?
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OCR = optical character recognition
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"I think Drosybont might be on track with the "whortle berry picking" in reply #5."
But you'd think that berry pickers would be paid by the bucket not by the week.
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OCR = optical character recognition
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"I think Drosybont might be on track with the "whortle berry picking" in reply #5."
But you'd think that berry pickers would be paid by the bucket not by the week.
I thought about that, but if "whortle girl" was in a poor/work house, could it be just a little bonus for her, and the rest goes into the general funds?
It still could be a surname, as suggested by ArthurK. The hunt goes on!
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The women in Shropshire who picked were paid by weight ,the agreed price per pound weight was as I said often reduced by the trader when the women came down with the last baskets full,a tally was kept and paid at the end that is when the price would be dropped.
Viktoria.
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Bilberries (whortleberries) are highly seasonal, so it seems unlikely that any picker would get a weekly wage, or that the pickers would be known as wortle girls
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Going back to the original transcription, which relates to the summary of the overseer of the poor in one of the Norfolk parishes. Could it be a mistake in transcription of the name of a parish?
I see that there was a parish named Wortwell which seems a possible error in transcription or even written as it was possibly pronounced as 'Wortle' in the local dialect. This parish became part of the Depwade Union after the 1834 Poor Law act.
Thus, a Wortwell/wortle girl .
Gadget
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I see that there was a parish named Wortwell which seems a possible error in transcription or even written as it was possibly pronounced as 'Wortle' in the local dialect.
That's a good idea :)
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It might even refer to Mr Smith who lived there :)
Added - Searches suggest it is pronounced Wottel in local dialect - so not far out. I'll see if I can trace the original entry
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OCR = optical character recognition
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"I think Drosybont might be on track with the "whortle berry picking" in reply #5."
But you'd think that berry pickers would be paid by the bucket not by the week.
Thanks Erato for the explanation :)
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I studied the history of the Poor law as part of an A level course in my teens! but I've forgotten a lot of it.
This, from Wiki, mentions the state of Poor Law in the 1790s:
In 1782, Thomas Gilbert finally succeeded in passing the Relief of the Poor Act[53] that established poor houses solely for the aged and infirm and introduced a system of outdoor relief for the able-bodied. This was the basis for the development of the Speenhamland system, which made financial provision for low-paid workers.
Add https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Poor_Laws
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Could she have been named wortley and spelled wrong?
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I don't think so.
Ir says Mr Smith Wortle .............. The Poor Law* at the time provided for a top up to employ the 'able bodied' to work. It could be that Mr Smith of Wortle (Variations) was given 1s as a top up to employi her.
The original entry needs to be obtained.
* See my previous post re Poor Law
Just found this
https://nrocatalogue.norfolk.gov.uk/index.php/parish-records-of-redenhall-with-harleston-and-wortwell
Maybe someone in Norwich might oblige.