RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: HistoricalGenealogy on Sunday 11 August 24 14:34 BST (UK)
-
Hello everyone,
I am currently research my McKenna Family Tree in Tyrone/Monaghan. I can't go further back than Patrick McKenna. Please help me on this side of the family
Here is all the information I have:
My oldest ancestor is Patrick McKenna (Farmer), he was born circa 1810 in Aghaloo or Errigal Truagh. He married circa 1835 in either Aghaloo or Errigal Truagh. He had a daughter named Eleanor about 1841 (death age extracted from 1901, her death date). Eleanor married in 1864 to Patrick Donnelly in St Brigid's in Carnteel (I am descended from her child, Mary Ann). She is listed as being residing in Belragh. It is possible that Patrick McKenna died around here but I have found none being fro Belragh. Also, it is possible that the family is based in Errigal Truagh, a neighburing parish; There are many McKennas from the parish and many graves survive.
Thanks in advance
-
If possible, it is always good to include links to the relevant primary sources to make it easier for others to research for you:
Patrick and Eleanor's marriage:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1864/11601/8269752.pdf
One of the witnesses is a William McKenna, possibly a brother.
Gives Patrick's residence as Sluggin, which leads to this census:
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Athenree/Sluggan/1747689/
Giving her a birth year of c.1841, yet her death certificate gives a birth year of c.1831, so she was not consistent:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1901/05728/4616446.pdf
Could you please list all their known children, as naming patterns can often be helpful. Also, do you have the baptism entries for their children, as the godparents are often relatives of the parents.
There is a possible baptism for Eleanor in 1837 in Errigal Truagh, the daughter of Patrick and Bridget. This couple also had a William.
Before you go any further back, it would be a good idea to ensure that you have the correct parents for Eleanor, as I imagine Patrick McKenna was a fairly common name.
Queenie :)
-
If possible, it is always good to include links to the relevant primary sources to make it easier for others to research for you:
Patrick and Eleanor's marriage:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1864/11601/8269752.pdf
One of the witnesses is a William McKenna, possibly a brother.
Gives Patrick's residence as Sluggin, which leads to this census:
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Athenree/Sluggan/1747689/
Giving her a birth year of c.1841, yet her death certificate gives a birth year of c.1831, so she was not consistent:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1901/05728/4616446.pdf
Could you please list all their known children, as naming patterns can often be helpful. Also, do you have the baptism entries for their children, as the godparents are often relatives of the parents.
There is a possible baptism for Eleanor in 1837 in Errigal Truagh, the daughter of Patrick and Bridget. This couple also had a William.
Before you go any further back, it would be a good idea to ensure that you have the correct parents for Eleanor, as I imagine Patrick McKenna was a fairly common name.
Queenie :)
Regarding Patrick’s known children, I do not know other than Ellen. For but for probable children, here they are:
- James McKenna - Married in Aughnacloy on November 27th, 1864
- John McKenna - Married in 1865 or 75
-
If possible, it is always good to include links to the relevant primary sources to make it easier for others to research for you:
Patrick and Eleanor's marriage:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1864/11601/8269752.pdf
One of the witnesses is a William McKenna, possibly a brother.
Gives Patrick's residence as Sluggin, which leads to this census:
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Athenree/Sluggan/1747689/
Giving her a birth year of c.1841, yet her death certificate gives a birth year of c.1831, so she was not consistent:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1901/05728/4616446.pdf
Could you please list all their known children, as naming patterns can often be helpful. Also, do you have the baptism entries for their children, as the godparents are often relatives of the parents.
There is a possible baptism for Eleanor in 1837 in Errigal Truagh, the daughter of Patrick and Bridget. This couple also had a William.
Before you go any further back, it would be a good idea to ensure that you have the correct parents for Eleanor, as I imagine Patrick McKenna was a fairly common name.
Queenie :)
Regarding Patrick’s known children, I do not know other than Ellen. For but for probable children, here they are:
- James McKenna - Married in Aughnacloy on November 27th, 1864
- John McKenna - Married in 1865 or 75
Also regarding Ellen, she is listed as age 60 in the 1901 Census. Also, it would be strange that she is older than her husband and married at 30 I was wrong most likely. Newspaper says Ellen Donnelly widow of Patrick died in 1923. However, getting that record is though as it needs to be ordered…
-
Sorry I should have been clearer, could you please list all known children of Patrick Donnolly and Eleanor McKenna, who married in 1864. Could you please also link Mary Ann's birth certificate.
He had a daughter named Eleanor about 1841 (death age extracted from 1901, her death date).
So she did not die in 1901? But the informant on the Sluggan death I linked is Peter Donnelly, who is residing with her on the 1901 census I also linked. Don't worry about the age being slightly out; her son may not have known her real age and so just took a guess.
Here's Peter's birth certificate:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03323/2218273.pdf
His father is Patrick Donnelly of Sluggan, whilst his mother is Ellen formerly McKenna. Do you have any reason to believe that there are 2 Patrick Donnellys of Sluggan who married Eleanor/Ellen McKennas? Could you please share as I am getting a bit confused, haha.
Newspaper says Ellen Donnelly widow of Patrick died in 1923. However, getting that record is though as it needs to be ordered…
That's a different lady. Here she is buried with her various family members:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/152505433/ellen-donnelly?
See what I said about common names!
-
Sorry I should have been clearer, could you please list all known children of Patrick Donnolly and Eleanor McKenna, who married in 1864. Could you please also link Mary Ann's birth certificate.
He had a daughter named Eleanor about 1841 (death age extracted from 1901, her death date).
So she did not die in 1901? But the informant on the Sluggan death I linked is Peter Donnelly, who is residing with her on the 1901 census I also linked. Don't worry about the age being slightly out; her son may not have known her real age and so just took a guess.
Here's Peter's birth certificate:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03323/2218273.pdf
His father is Patrick Donnelly of Sluggan, whilst his mother is Ellen formerly McKenna. Do you have any reason to believe that there are 2 Patrick Donnellys of Sluggan who married Eleanor/Ellen McKennas? Could you please share as I am getting a bit confused, haha.
Newspaper says Ellen Donnelly widow of Patrick died in 1923. However, getting that record is though as it needs to be ordered…
That's a different lady. Here she is buried with her various family members:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/152505433/ellen-donnelly?
See what I said about common names!
Children:
Ellen 1869
Sarah Ann 1866
Peter 1870
-
Sorry I should have been clearer, could you please list all known children of Patrick Donnolly and Eleanor McKenna, who married in 1864. Could you please also link Mary Ann's birth certificate.
He had a daughter named Eleanor about 1841 (death age extracted from 1901, her death date).
So she did not die in 1901? But the informant on the Sluggan death I linked is Peter Donnelly, who is residing with her on the 1901 census I also linked. Don't worry about the age being slightly out; her son may not have known her real age and so just took a guess.
Here's Peter's birth certificate:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03323/2218273.pdf
His father is Patrick Donnelly of Sluggan, whilst his mother is Ellen formerly McKenna. Do you have any reason to believe that there are 2 Patrick Donnellys of Sluggan who married Eleanor/Ellen McKennas? Could you please share as I am getting a bit confused, haha.
Newspaper says Ellen Donnelly widow of Patrick died in 1923. However, getting that record is though as it needs to be ordered…
That's a different lady. Here she is buried with her various family members:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/152505433/ellen-donnelly?
See what I said about common names!
Also, I am looking for the McKennas, not the Donnelly’s. About Patrick
-
Children:
Ellen 1869
Sarah Ann 1866
Peter 1870
and Mary Ann also? When was she born?
Have you found baptisms for these children? Baptisms can be invaluable as they provide the names of the godparents, who are often relatives (as I have stated above).
Also, I am looking for the McKennas, not the Donnelly’s. About Patrick
I understand that, but you need to know everything you can about Eleanor, including the names of all her children, and information about her siblings, before you go back to her father. How could you know that you are researching the correct Patrick McKenna, if you have no other context?
You state that:
My oldest ancestor is Patrick McKenna (Farmer), he was born circa 1810 in Aghaloo or Errigal Truagh. He married circa 1835 in either Aghaloo or Errigal Truagh. He had a daughter named Eleanor about 1841 (death age extracted from 1901, her death date).
But you don't offer any sources for this, so I am trying to take a step back to establish what sources are available and what they tell us. I suggested that Eleanor may have been the daughter of a Patrick and Bridget McKenna in Errigal Truagh, but I wanted to try and provide confirmation of this by using the names of Eleanor's children and trying to find the names of Eleanor's known siblings to see if Patrick and Bridget had baptised children with these names. For example, Eleanor's marriage was witnessed by a William, this could suggest that she had a sibling called William. However, she had no daughter called Bridget, which may be expected if her mother had been Bridget. Essentially, trying to find more records to establish links between her and other McKennas in the area. I can see that there was certainly more than 1 Patrick McKenna in the area at the time of Eleanor's birth.
-
Children:
Ellen 1869
Sarah Ann 1866
Peter 1870
and Mary Ann also? When was she born?
Have you found baptisms for these children? Baptisms can be invaluable as they provide the names of the godparents, who are often relatives (as I have stated above).
Also, I am looking for the McKennas, not the Donnelly’s. About Patrick
I understand that, but you need to know everything you can about Eleanor, including the names of all her children, and information about her siblings, before you go back to her father. How could you know that you are researching the correct Patrick McKenna, if you have no other context?
You state that:
My oldest ancestor is Patrick McKenna (Farmer), he was born circa 1810 in Aghaloo or Errigal Truagh. He married circa 1835 in either Aghaloo or Errigal Truagh. He had a daughter named Eleanor about 1841 (death age extracted from 1901, her death date).
But you don't offer any sources for this, so I am trying to take a step back to establish what sources are available and what they tell us. I suggested that Eleanor may have been the daughter of a Patrick and Bridget McKenna in Errigal Truagh, but I wanted to try and provide confirmation of this by using the names of Eleanor's children and trying to find the names of Eleanor's known siblings to see if Patrick and Bridget had baptised children with these names. For example, Eleanor's marriage was witnessed by a William, this could suggest that she had a sibling called William. However, she had no daughter called Bridget, which may be expected if her mother had been Bridget. Essentially, trying to find more records to establish links between her and other McKennas in the area. I can see that there was certainly more than 1 Patrick McKenna in the area at the time of Eleanor's birth.
Parish Register Births:
Sarah Donnelly BIRTH 1866
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F526-MBK
Ellen Donnelly BIRTH 1869
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5TQ-Q92
Peter Donnelly BIRTH 1870
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGV3-ZLCZ
Civil Births:
Sarah Donnelly BIRTH 1866
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03519/2294481.pdf
Ellen Donnelly BIRTH 1869
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03409/2250344.pdf
Peter Donnelly BIRTH 1870
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03323/2218273.pdf
-
So there was never a Mary Ann? You make things much harder by putting inaccurate information in your opening post.
Anyway, I feel you would perhaps no longer like my assistance, so I will leave it to someone else who may provide more insight. I only wanted to try and help you with your query.
-
So there was never a Mary Ann? You make things much harder by putting inaccurate information in your opening post.
Anyway, I feel you would perhaps no longer like my assistance, so I will leave it to someone else who may provide more insight. I only wanted to try and help you with your query.
Understood. Thanks for you help though.
-
Historical Genealogy...just a point you usually don't need to link back to the posts when you are replying. The only time it is helpful is when say there is a point hidden in a long post that you are replying to.
If you need to refer back you can say 'referring to ZYX's query about birth names these are the chiildrens names....
Many find it, constant quotes and quotes within quotes, a distraction and would rather have some information from you to 'place' the replies you are making.
You have now provided links to the births you have found. have you checked for deaths?
-
Historical Genealogy...just a point you usually don't need to link back to the posts when you are replying.
Understood
-
I have made a new post as I caused this post to become a Jumbled mess. I greatly applogized to Queenofthewest for the non-detailed post and errors I made. If you still want to help me, consider checking it out...
New Post: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=884933.msg7579682#msg7579682
-
Hello there I wondering if I could help my family are mckennas and my grandad was from Dungannon and he was born 1912 john Leo mckenna.and his dad was john mckenna born 1887 he had brother called patrick.i mean we mite not be related but I was wondering if got any further at finding out what wanted to find out as I don't know much about my grandads side of the family x
-
O yes I forgot to add at the weddings I have seen cert the witness to these weddings was donnelly there surname ☺️
-
Just adding the birth record link for John Leo.
Born 18 September 1912 at Boyd's Square, Dungannon. Father John McKenna a flax dresser. MMN Mullan.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01485/1604484.pdf
-
Just adding the birth record link for John Leo.
Born 18 September 1912 at Boyd's Square, Dungannon. Father John McKenna a flax dresser. MMN Mullan.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01485/1604484.pdf
His parent's marriage - 26 November 1898 - Dungannon RC Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1898/10433/5798919.pdf
-
Hi there. You might have missed some parish records from Aghaloo and Errigal Truagh. It's worth checking the Carnteel parish books where they often recorded marriages and deaths of people from nearby areas. Also try looking for family gravestones in Errigal Truagh - you might find additional family names there :-) (https://mazzani.pl/projektant-wnetrz-cennik/)
-
...I was wondering if got any further at finding out what wanted to find out as I don't know much about my grandads side of the family xa
Haven't been focusing on this die but I have able to find information regarding this line. Most McKennas within this region originate from Errigal (Trough). A graveyard survives here and contains many relatives. You may be a relative but we would need to confirm that they are from Errigal.