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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: EllenBan on Wednesday 07 August 24 23:49 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I have an ancestor called Thomas Breeding(Breeden) who married Elizabeth Short in Cuckfield 1770. He died in 1828 in Balcombe born around 1750. I thought that he might be Thomas Breeding born 1750 Cuckfield son of Nicholas and Sarah, but looking at the records there is no baptism. I think i found information elsewhere in the past and did not look further into it. Can someone help to find the baptism and right parents of Thomas?
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I note the marriage in 1770 but quite a gap before the children were baptised, were there any others?
Balcombe, Sussex Baptisms – Thomas & Elizabeth
James Breeding 27 Feb 1780
Henry Bredon 27 Oct 1781
William Breeden 14 Nov 1784
Joseph Breden 1 Nov 1789
Mary Breden 23 Jun 1793
Colin
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As Thomas/Elizabeth don't seem to name children Nicholas/Sarah I would be sceptical those were his Parents.
I see they have children James/Henry/William/Joseph/Mary from 1780.
Must be others born elsewhere?
Mary BASHFORD
Nicholaus BREDEN married 17 Apr 1768 Cuckfield.
The had a Thomas but bapt 11 Sep 1768 so too young to marry 1770.
Elizabeth SHORT was bapt 28 Jul 1751 Holy Trinity, Cuckfield to WILLIAM/SARAH
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Ok found CHARLES Breeding 30 May 1773, CRAVEN Breathing 16 Feb 1776
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There is one tree on Ancestry which suggest this was Thomas, I’m not so sure?
(Shown as 1746 Julian Calendar)
Thomas Breeding
Birth Date 22 Feb About 1747
Baptism Date 22 Mar 1747 Reigate, St Mary, Surrey
Father Jacob Breeding
Mother Ann Breeding
Colin
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ELIZABETH Breeding 10 Nov 1771
So no Nicholas bapt.
Saw that bapt also to Jacob/Ann
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Elisabeth Short, maybe.
Baptism 28 Jul 1751 Cuckfield, Sussex, England
Father William Short
Mother Sarah Short
Colin
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East Grinstead removal order, 1 Sep 1777
Thomas Breden, married, parish Balcombe
children Elizabeth, 6, Charles, 5, and Craven,1y 6m
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/dbs/pl/getrecord/12931/
Breden entries in the Database of Poor Law records for West Sussex
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/dbs/pl/search/?srs_search[surname]=BREDEN
The "boarding agreements" are the poor children placed out to service by the Balcombe parish officers
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-D1QG-WJ
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Thank you all again for your time and research. Yes I have Elizabeth Short b. 1751 Cuckfield too but her husband is still a mystery and the name Breeduing/Breeden is not very common.
The poor family:( I think it was not an easy time for them while growing up. I did not know that these records exist and will look more into it because i have a lot of ancestors from Sussex. You never know the circumstances back then, maybe Thomas was adopted or lived with a family called Breeden and took their last name or was born with a different surname or born illegitimate and later took his biological or stepdads name. The name of his child "Craven" could also be surname that runs in his or his wifes family ???
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Cant see a bapt for Thomas in the right time frame.
For future ref this is the Nicholas/Sarah you referrred to earlier;
Sal BOTCHLY
Nicolas BREEDEN married 10 Apr 1749 St Mary, Balcombe
Nicholas of Cuckfield and Sal of the Parish
Cant see any children to them with my resources.
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Thank you, I'll write it down, maybe there's a connection somehow and somewhere
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Ok found CHARLES Breeding 30 May 1773
As Charles was the name of the first son, it sent me looking for another Charles, and it seems to be a less common first name back then than John, William, etc.
There was a couple called Charles and Susan(na/nah) Breaden who had children baptized in Thakeham in the 1770's and 1780's, though the first child (James) was at Warminghurst in 1769 (and looks like an Emmanuel was baptized there in 1784)
Marriage, 20 July 1769, Warminghurst, Charles Brading + Susannah Soutter
Transcript here
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58186bc9e93790eb7fc459c1
There is a possible burial at Thakeham, 31 Dec 1828
Charles Braidon, abode Thakeham, age 83
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-62RS-38
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Somehow I've got to West Chiltington! Where FreeReg index a Charles Breeden burial, 25 Feb 1790
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5818ef44e93790de6a3eb9b1
Now here, in West Chiltington, we have a baptism
13 January 1750/51
Thomas Brethen
Parents Edmund and Sarah
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/581802f9e93790eca3531de3
Image (faint) of PR here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-D1F1-KZ
Could this Thomas be a candidate? :-\
He is baptized around the right time.
Marriage at West Chiltington, 16 Dec 1746
Edmund Brethen + Sarah Pell
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58186bf8e93790eb7fc4b182
Sadly, a burial, 9 July 1755
Sarah, wife of Edmund Brethen
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5818ef43e93790de6a3eb8b0
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It's possible that the Charles Breaden in Thakeham married to Susan might have been be a sibling of the Thomas baptized in January 1750/1!
FreeReg has a baptism at West Chiltington, 1 Mar 1746/47
Charles (son of) Edmund + Sarah Brother
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/581802f8e93790eca3531cf1
Reasonable date, given the age on the burial in 1828 in Thakeham of the elderly Charles.
Also a daughter Mary baptized to Edmund and Sarah, 19 Feb 1748/49
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/581802f9e93790eca3531d60
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FreeReg has a baptism at West Chiltington, 1 Mar 1746/47
Charles (son of) Edmund + Sarah Brother
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/581802f8e93790eca3531cf1
Sadly I don't have 24/7 access to the wonderful Sussex PR images on ancestry, but from the image of the BT on FamilySearch the name looks more like Brethen than Brother to me
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6MZ3-54Q
Ditto Mary, Brethen
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6MZ3-YL5
Uh oh
Thomas looks like James on the BT :o
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6MZ3-1YP?
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Well it's Thomas in the parish register, for sure
Indexed on FS
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJDX-9DYP
Looking at the image again
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-D1F1-KZ
Baptized in 1750
Starting with twins on 17 April
Further down
Thomas Son of Edmund & Sarah Brethen, Jany: 13th
But it says James on the BT. Hopefully just a copying error! But naughty.
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Amazing new information! I will look more into it, one son of Thomas Breeden,Breaden,Breeding was baptised as Craven Breathing, so very close to BRETHEN.
There could be a connection ;D
The baptism looks definitley like James not Thomas
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Hi
I have got hold of the digital image of the parish register (attached), and he is Thomas on that.
It looks like James on the bishop's transcript, but I think we have to go with the PR as the BT is a copy.
There are a couple of Edmund Breaden baptisms in Pulborough, which is very close to Thakeham and West Chiltington. One in 1715 and one in 1716.
Perhaps one of those is the Edmund Brethen who married Sarah Pell in 1746?
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Great he is still a possibility!
I saw the two baptism in Pulborough too but did not find a death for Edmund yet (father of Thomas,husband of Sarah Pell)
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I'm very late to the Thomas Breadon thread but for what it is worth I am descended from Charles Breadon & Susanna Soutter who married 1769 in Warminghurst.
My own research concludes that Charles and Thomas were brothers, the sons of Edmund Breadon (Brethen) & Sarah Pell who m. 1746 in West Chiltington and who bap. 4 children there between 1747 and 1753, viz.
Charles 1747
Mary 1749
Thomas 1751
Hannah 1753
The only instances I found of the Brethen surname variation occurred in West Chiltington and this spelling appears to be a 'peculiarity' of the vicar. This can be demonstrated by looking at entries for one Bascomb Breadon who appears as Breadon in Pulborough and Brethen in W. Chiltington.
I'm currently unsure who Edmund's parents were but I think he was probably a grandson of Robert Breadon of Pulborough who died in 1700 and left a will (on Ancestry).
Any thoughts or comments will be gratefully received.