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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: Lisa in California on Tuesday 06 August 24 01:52 BST (UK)
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While looking at my mum’s (she passed away in 2020) unviewed DNA matches on Ancestry, I noticed an unexpected result. The individual (let’s say Colleen) has an Ovens in her tree who was my ancestor’s brother. Colleen and my mum share(d) 66 cM across 7 segments. My brother, my younger son and I all share DNA with Colleen as well.
The puzzling thing is when I search DNA matches for Ovens, using any of our tests, Colleen’s name does not appear. Only when I type her “match name”, not Ovens, does her match appear. ??? Again, Ovens is listed in her tree, her tree is not private.
Could this be just a glitch or is there another reason why she doesn’t appear when searching for Ovens. If it isn’t a glitch, then is it possible that there could be other unviewed matches who could end up being previously unknown somewhat close cousins? Any guidance gratefully appreciated. Thank you, Lisa
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Does the name in the matches' tree have additional info in it, e.g.
William Ovens 2nd GGF
OR
William Ovens Mr
It could be there are some deficiencies in their system, though I can't say I've not found people when searching using surnames of ancestors. But I have found a few trees that have common ancestors that they have not detected, and I can't see any reason why they wouldn't. But it is what it is. Working with DNA is a long process and to get the most of it you need to systematically go through the matches to see how they all actually relate to you.
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Thank you for replying, 4b2. Only the first, middle and last names were inserted, no title or other details.
My Ovens branch is one of my favourite branches. I have wonderful memories of visiting my mum’s uncle (an Ovens) and playing board games with our family and my great-uncle. He was like a grandfather to me (my own grandparents passed before my birth and shortly after).
Of course I will try to contact the match. She has a fairly brief tree; either by choice, or lack of details. In 1985, I communicated with the son of the man in her tree but I don’t believe my mum knew her.
I will continue looking at my mum’s unviewed matches; perhaps I can find other “cousins”. Thank you for your question and comments, 4b2.
Added: my mum started looking for her Ovens distant relatives when we visited Ireland when I was about 11 years old. Maybe some day I might be able to put all of the puzzle pieces together.
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Have you already looked at matches that your mother ( + brother + son ) share with Coleen?
Do they have unlinked trees or no trees .
1 reason she may not show when doing an OVENS name search is if the person on her tree is not a direct blood relative . For example by marriage. Could you be related through a different person?
Or is there a mistake on their tree ...could it be on a floating branch ?
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If she has multiple trees the dna results could be linked to a private unsearchable tree so you won't see results when surname searching or thy may not be linked to a tree at all.
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brigidmac and Glen, thank you for posting your questions.
Colleen has one tree. Her tree has fewer than 15 individuals; several individuals are marked as private. I found an obituary that thankfully gives grandchildren’s names and by comparing the obituary with the tree, I believe Colleen is a direct descendant.
Actually, the man in her tree is the nephew of my ancestor, not brother, but I would think that wouldn’t change the results (she should still show up when searching for Ovens)?
My gggrandfather, John, settled in Canada in the 1850s. Due to early deaths and other circumstances, to my knowledge, there are few living descendants of John. So, not surprisingly, when searching for Ovens matches, there aren’t many: my mum has 9, I have 7 and my brother has 6.
I’ve just looked at my mum’s and Colleen’s shared matches. One match (“Annie”) is puzzling (at least to me). I don’t see any Ovens in her tree but, shown as a direct ancestor in Annie’s tree is an Elizabeth Wakefield. Elizabeth’s great-grandfather was David Wakefield. My ancestor was Jane Wakefield, her grandfather may have been David Wakefield (I have yet to find proof). The puzzling part is my Jane Wakefield married John Ovens - possibly Elizabeth’s relative married an Ovens? That will take time to research.
Thank you brigidmac, Glen and 4b2 - your questions and comments are very helpful and will help as well with other situations I come across. (I hope I’ve answered your questions.)
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I’ve just looked at my mum’s and Colleen’s shared matches. One match (“Annie”) is puzzling (at least to me). I don’t see any Ovens in her tree but, shown as a direct ancestor in Annie’s tree is an Elizabeth Wakefield. Elizabeth’s great-grandfather was David Wakefield. My ancestor was Jane Wakefield, her grandfather may have been David Wakefield
Is there an overlap between the Ovens and Wakfields in your tree?
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I’m sorry, 4b2, I’m not quite sure what you are asking. :-\
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I’m sorry, 4b2, I’m not quite sure what you are asking. :-\
What is the proximity of Ovens to Wakefield in your tree? e.g. "my great-great grandfather Ovens married a Wakefield."
i.e. is the proximity to Ovens and Wakefield in your tree close? Can you think of a reason why your Ovens match has a Wakefield in their tree?
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My Wakefield ancestors (Jane, the daughter, and her siblings and their parents) arrived in America 1839 and lived in New Jersey. She married John Ovens in 1842 in New Jersey. They settled in Toronto, Canada c1852. I cannot locate John between his possible baptism date to the 1840s.
Annie’s -Elizabeth Wakefield- was living with her family in the same New Jersey town at the same time.
I believe John Ovens had siblings named Alexander and Anne (I cannot verify that detail). To my knowledge, Alexander and Anne remained in Ireland.
Perhaps John Ovens met someone in Elizabeth Wakefield’s family prior to (or during) his marriage to Jane Wakefield? That is the only idea that I’ve come up with that could explain Annie having a Wakefield in her tree, and no Ovens, but yet be a shared match between Colleen and my family. :-\
Thank you again for your interest and help, 4b2.
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My Wakefield ancestors (Jane, the daughter, and her siblings and their parents) arrived in America 1839 and lived in New Jersey. She married John Ovens in 1842 in New Jersey. They settled in Toronto, Canada c1852. I cannot locate John between his possible baptism date to the 1840s.
Annie’s -Elizabeth Wakefield- was living with her family in the same New Jersey town at the same time.
I believe John Ovens had siblings named Alexander and Anne (I cannot verify that detail). To my knowledge, Alexander and Anne remained in Ireland.
Perhaps John Ovens met someone in Elizabeth Wakefield’s family prior to (or during) his marriage to Jane Wakefield? That is the only idea that I’ve come up with that could explain Annie having a Wakefield in her tree, and no Ovens, but yet be a shared match between Colleen and my family. :-\
Thank you again for your interest and help, 4b2.
If you have a match with confirmed Ovens ancestors and then a shared match with a Wakefield ancestor of unknown connection, it makes sense that the common Wakfield's match is related to your Wakefield. At least if the confirmed Ovens match also has Wakefield ancestry.
What I do with my matches with small trees is I open the profiles for the dead-end ancestors. Press the [Search] button at the top-right near [Tools].
(https://i.postimg.cc/dhVBQSzK/1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dhVBQSzK)
This will take you a search page that usually has a snippet of trees that person is in. If not select "family trees" on the left menu to go to trees.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Xr1grkbB/2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Xr1grkbB)
Open the individual in a tree. You might need to look at a couple, as the trees might not have the full ancestry.
I do this for all my matches, systematically, until I find a link or if I can't see a link or where it may have slipped in via NPEs. And then I mark them as relationship found or note it as closed.
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Hi 4b2,
My mum’s uncle had the family bible (now lost). Included in the bible was a list of Ovens names, birthdates, and mention of Co. Fermanagh, Ireland. Also included was Jane Wakefield’s name (who married John Ovens in 1842). Her birth was recorded as Tuam, Ireland. I never saw the bible; I don’t know if other Wakefields were mentioned.
-At least one other RootsChatter has posted topics about the Ballinasloe, Galway Wakefields. Ballinasloe was never mentioned in my mum’s family, only Tuam.
-Ancestry has images of a book, written by a Wakefield (published around 1900, I believe), that includes John Ovens and Jane Wakefield. [It’s been a long time since I read the book’s explanation, but I believe research was done by the author to gather facts from North American Wakefield families.]
-I have corresponded with two or three Ballinasloe Wakefield descendants (a couple are Wakefield DNA matches).
-While it is likely that our Wakefields are related, I’ve not yet found the connection.
Thank you for sharing your strategy (and posting images). I am very technology-challenged, so your instructions are very helpful. ;) I will try your method tonight, when there are no interruptions. Thank you, Lisa
Added: Over the years, I’ve posted (a number of) topics for Ovens and Wakefield. I don’t want anyone to duplicate previous efforts and findings by RootsChatters, so this topic only pertains to the question of why a likely Wakefield match is a shared match with an Ovens descendant. ;)
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With regard to how a "Wakefield" family member might show as a shared match to descendants of "Ovens":
If I've understood correctly, your Mum and Colleen both descend from the couple John Ovens and Jane Wakefield. Their children would have carried BOTH of their parents DNA, i.e. their children were (genetically) equally "Ovens" and "Wakefield".
To repeat what 4b2 already said, but in a slightly different way, the DNA that connects your mother, Colleen and Annie, is likely to have been passed down from a more distant ancestor on Jane Wakefield's side, who was also an ancestor of Elizabeth Wakefield.
The good news is that this DNA link appears to support your theory that Jane and Elizabeth Wakefield were related, despite any lack of documentation to spell out the exact connection.
I don't know why Colleen doesn't show on a tree search for the Ovens name though.
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whoamitoday, I finally get it. ::) You and 4b2 are absolutely correct, in this case, we would all be related through Wakefields. (How embarrassing that it took so long to sink in.) Thank you very much for your help and comments.
I just resumed delving into my paternal Vaus branch. When I need a break from that, I will spend time (once again) trying to find Jane Wakefield’s grandfather. Prior to DNA testing, I found a couple of Wakefield descendants but Jane’s father just didn’t fit in with their research. Of course, we’ve now found DNA matches with Ballinasloe Wakefields.
I just checked the Wakefield Memorial book (found on Ancestry, and I believe on the internet). David Wakefield, who according to Colleen was her Elizabeth Wakefield’s great-grandfather, is shown as being my Jane Wakefield’s grandfather. However, several years ago I noticed a few small errors in my Wakefield details (in the book), so I want proof before I accept the fact.
I don’t mind my original issue with Ovens not appearing when searching for it. As a result of the issue, we found another Wakefield descendant and I have a renewed interest in this line. Thank you all very much for your guidance and interest. Lisa