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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: JoeDuffy on Monday 29 July 24 18:32 BST (UK)
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Trying to identify a mystery photo. The sign is chopped off but quite possibly it's LEES and pretty sure it's somewhere in Lancs. Has anyone heard of an R B Lees in this context of a coaching inn or off-sales booze attached to it? Photo is very early 1900s as there is hand written reference to the coach driver being Joe Meakin, Sept 1902. Hoping to identify the inn and see if it is still there.
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Lancashire is a big county. Did you inherit the photo from a relative? If so - whereabouts in Lancs were they from?
If not - why do you think it is Lancs?
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Sorry, just to be clear it's a postcard mystery rather than family tree. I have no connection to the area. Lees is very highly concentrated in Lancs - 40% of all UK Lees were in Lancs at the 1891 census, and Yates was also founded in Lancs in 1884. That's why I think the photo is from the area. Just trying to tap into local knowledge.
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Is there a connection to J W Lees Brewery?
Founded 1828, on Middleton Manchester, and still going today.
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I'm beginning to think it may actually have been J W Lees but for some reason the photograph has been altered at some time for some reason. Why that would be done though is beyond me. I even thought it might be the Spring Inn, Broad Lane, Rochdale which is still there and a J W Lees property. R B Lees is not really getting me anything connected to inns, hotels, brewers, etc.
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There is a Joseph Meakin b 1875 in Stockport in 1901.
I can't make out his occupation fully, but it seems to be "Coach something", I think.
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There is a Joseph Meakin b 1875 in Stockport in 1901.
I can't make out his occupation fully, but it seems to be "Coach something", I think
Looks like "coach wharfman".
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I think it could be Lee rather than Lees. If the second line ends at Stout and the third line ends at Tobacco, there isn't really room for an additional letter after Lee.
Something like this:
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Looking at Richard Barker Lee who appears to have been the licensee of several pubs in the Morecambe area in the early 1900s.
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Newspapers snippets referring to Mr R B Lee, Bolton Le Sands - the Black Bull (see 1911 also)
4th February 1911 Lancashire evening Post
“sometimes in summer they had as many as 30 carriages at a time standing in front of the house.’
6th July 1912
“ in the case of the Black Bull, Bolton-le-Sands, owned by Messrs Yates and Co. Manchester, and tenanted by Mr. R. B. Lee …”
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The Black Bull at Bolton-le-Sands is a possibility. The proximity of another house to the left is a match.
https://redrosecollections.lancashire.gov.uk/view-item?i=225007&WINID=1722341448221&fullPage=1
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This seems to be the old Black Bull on Streetview: https://tinyurl.com/4kmyyhne
The lintel above the front door seems to match, but the wooden porch has gone.
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Hard to say, I think. I have been looking for photos with no success.
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The downstairs windows do not appear to be as wide as the original picture
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I think the Black Bull looks very, very promising. The gap with trees visible and the back corner of another building is a good match. Thank you so much to everyone, especially ShaunJ. I don't think I would have got this as I was too focused on LEES.
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Richard Barker Lee was also a cab proprietor and owned livery stables in Morecambe.
Something isn't quite adding up - the licence of the Black Bull at Bolton le Sands was transferred to RBL on a temporary basis in December 1908, and then transferred formally in January 1909. So the September 1902 date on the postcard doesn't fit too well.
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Had another good look at this. Could it possibly say "Joe Meakin, owner" instead of driver? Sept 02?
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I think it's Driver rather than Owner, but the other word isn't 'Sept'. It looks like (possibly) Brgt, and then it might be '02', but I'm not totally sure of this.
Something that's worth considering is the style of the postcard back. From what we can see, it looks as though it's an undivided back, with something like "This side for the address". Please could you confirm this? The alternative, which was introduced in 1902, was the divided back, with a vertical line down the middle separating the text and address spaces. But even after 1902, there will have been old cards to use up.
In the image itself, the ladies' hats look very Edwardian, but possibly mid-decade rather than the start? Others will know better than I do. And there appear to be petrol pumps either side of the pub door.
Finally, might you be able to do a high resolution scan of just the sign above the left hand window? The writing on it could be a useful clue.
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In the 1911 census there is a coachman in Toxteth (Liverpool) named Joseph Thomas Meakin, born circa 1873 in Derbyshire. He worked for an undertaker but that wouldn't necessarily preclude him from driving a charabanc on his day off.
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Full image of the back. The postcard isn't mine, it's from someone I've started following on Twitter/X
https://x.com/PaulSuttonKing/status/1817826627088228392
I do agree it says driver. Thanks to you lot, the main part of the mystery has been solved.
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I have a postcard of the Black Bull at Bolton le Sands (postmarked 1907). it says very clearly who the landlord was at that time - and it was not R B Lees.
Ian
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On your original post you mention Sept 1902. Has this been taken from the writing on the back of the picture image that you have posted as I think it could say Bgt 02 possibly meaning bought 02 and perhaps relates to when this pc was purchased, perhaps 2002
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It seems Richard Lee didn't take it over until 1908/09 so the 02 must refer to something else
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Hi - the date 1907 is the date of the postmark, so the photo was taken any time in the few years before that.
Ian
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Hi - the date 1902 is the date of the postmark, so the photo was taken that year or probably only a year or two before that.
What postmark? There's no stamp, no address.