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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: tjtree on Saturday 27 July 24 19:08 BST (UK)
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Hi my friend who’s not on internet has ask for help … she was brought up by grandmother marie Elizabeth Jeager born 1912 not sure where marie Marty’s a man with surname saich in 1935 West Ham .. marie was always told her mother harriet Ann born 1895 haven’t got her maiden name was born a lady oh Glossop a cousin to the lord of Glossop and from the Howard’s family this is everything she knows we just don’t know how we can find harriet Ann’s maiden name she thinks it was evans but we can’t get any further it’s already a brick wall please could anyone help
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Just to start:
Did Marie Elizabeth Jaegar marry Frederick Walter John Holloway in Canning Town in 1932, with her father irecorded as Edward Joseph Jaegar?
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Honestly no idea
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I see the marriage you refer to in 1935
Marie E Jaeger and Harold S Saich.
Does your friend have this certificate?
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I’ll ring and ask her x
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Birth
Marie E Jaeger 1912 Sculcoates
The mother’s maiden name is Evans.
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Yep that’s her she just said I think she born sulcoates wow she doesn’t have certificate
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Here is a possibility for Harriet Ann Evans in Sculcoates
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7TS-VPM
She would be best to purchase the Certificate/s to confirm.
Here is an Edward Joseph Jaegar
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8036769
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The marriage you mention in 1935 West Ham
Marie E Jaeger to Saich
Have you looked at the 1939 register?
Place East Ham, Essex
Harold Saich 1912
Marie E Saich (Beautyman) 1912
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Apparently harriet was born 1895ish and harriets mother who was a lady gave it all up would never use her title again .. so if garrets maiden name was evans must mean she married A ? Jaeger she gets so confused x
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What does the beauty man in brackets mean x
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This dob matches 1939 register Marie E Saich
Death entry
Marie Elizabeth Beautyman
Birth 5 10 1912
Death quarter 4
Death year 1980
District Newham
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What does the beauty man in brackets mean x
She remarried
Sep 1962
SAICH Marie E Beautyman E.Ham 5a 80
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Oh ok thank you x
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This is interesting.
In 1911, Maria Ann Evans is recorded as ‘widow’ whilst James Smith Evans is ‘head’.
1891 3905/10
James Smith, head, single,
Mary Ann Evans, 43 yrs, Mistress, Widow b Stockport
I can’t spot them in 1901
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So marie ann evans would that be harriot mum harried born 1895 ish
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1901 4459/13/5
Wallingfen, Yorkshire
James Smith, head, single
Mary A Evans, servant, widow, b Stockport
Several children all recorded by initials and surname Evans including H A S Evans, 5 yrs
So that will be Harriet Ann.
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Birth
Marie E Jaeger 1912 Sculcoates
The mother’s maiden name is Evans.
From GRO indexes you can get a digital image of b/c cost £3.00
https://www.gro.gov.uk
The 1921 census is free to search this confirms year & place of birth
West Ham, Essex & London
Harriett Ann Jaegar 1893 Yorkshire
Marie E Jaegar 1912 Hull
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Oh wow that could be harriet ann and maybe the s is for smith then evans
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So I need to find when evans and jaeger married now
Thank u x
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This is interesting.
In 1911, Maria Ann Evans is recorded as ‘widow’ whilst James Smith Evans is ‘head’.
1891 3905/10
James Smith, head, single,
Mary Ann Evans, 43 yrs, Mistress, Widow b Stockport
I can’t spot them in 1901
Harriett Ann Jaeger
Victoria Docks, St Luke, Essex
Father James Smith Evans
Spouse St Clair Samuel Jones
Essex, England, Church of England Marriages, 1754-1937
Image is here but you have to pay to view
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tbo/
Can just make out that Harriet is a widow
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Birth
EVANS, HARRIET ANN SMITH - No mother's maiden name.
GRO Reference: 1895 S Quarter in HOWDEN Volume 09D Page 99
SS
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I think so.
I began to post this but don’t think I did.
Your couple are together in 1881 too - as head and housekeeper and Mary Ann is a widow.
There is a marriage in Manchester in 1867 between William Thomas Evans and Mary Anna Ogden.
1871 4056/88/38
Has this couple with children
No idea though if it is the right Mary Ann
Added
Don’t think this is her - just spotted a tree for that family
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1939 Register
East Ham, Essex
St Clair Jones 1878
Harriett Jones 1893
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So I need to find when evans and jaeger married now
Thank u x
Not sure if this was posted
Jun 1913
Evans Harriet A S Jaeger Sculcoates 9d 410
Jaeger Edward J Evans Sculcoates 9d 410
Yorkshire BMD shows marriage was Sculcoates Register Offices or Registrar Attended
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Thank you x
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Harriett Ann Jones d aged 80 (born 6 Aug 1895)
Death registered Sep qtr 1976
Newham RD
Vol 15 p 1482
SS
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Harriet appears in 1921 with a daughter, born pre marriage of parents.
JAEGER, MARIE ELIZABETH EVANS
GRO Reference: 1912 D Quarter in SCULCOATES Volume 09D Page 313
SS
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Oh ok I understand now xx
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In an earlier post, I gave this link to an Edward Joseph Jaeger.
He is b 1884 in USA and looks to be a seaman which could have a connection with Sculcoates.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8036769
It s just a medal card so no further information. I post it just because of the name.
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So I need to find when evans and jaeger married now
Thank u x
Not sure if this was posted
Jun 1913
Evans Harriet A S Jaeger Sculcoates 9d 410
Jaeger Edward J Evans Sculcoates 9d 410
Yorkshire BMD shows marriage was Sculcoates Register Offices or Registrar Attended
Sorry, I missed this - would be interesting to see what his occupation is.
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In an earlier post, I gave this link to an Edward Joseph Jaeger.
He is b 1884 in USA and looks to be a seaman which could have a connection with Sculcoates.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8036769
It s just a medal card so no further information. I post it just because of the name.
This could be the same person as above - he left his US residence July 25th 1907 and arrived in London after 1st Feb 1908 (sea faring career), joining ship for deep sea trade (ship’s cook), a photo is attached
Edward Joseph Jaeger
Birth Date 3 May 1884
Birth Place Futawville, S.C.
Residence London
Civil Date 30 Jun 1916
U.S., Consular Registration Certificates, 1907-1918
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If this is correct one then harriet Marrys him by 1912 or has daughter marie Elizabeth jaeger out of wedlock marrys few months after her birth but by 1924 she’s in west hsm London marrying st clair Samuel jones in 1924 West Ham I think I wrote it right xx
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Just to start:
Did Marie Elizabeth Jaegar marry Frederick Walter John Holloway in Canning Town in 1932, with her father irecorded as Edward Joseph Jaegar?
Image available here but you have to pay to view
https://www.essexarchivesonline.co.uk//GetImage.aspx?FullImage=0&ID=1198718
Not sure if father Edward’s occupation might read chef :-\
Bride & groom no signatures nor are there any witnesses names or signatures ???
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Another entry but his year of birth 1883,
mentions he is married to Annie Jaeger born Newport, Yorks Eng. resides at 12 Salmon Terrace Liverpool Street Hull has following children Marie Jaeger born 5th October 1912 Hull England
Edward Joseph Jaeger
Birth Date 3 May 1883
Birth Place East St. Louis, Illinois
Residence Newcastle, Eng.
Civil Date 10 Sep 1915
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Marie married harold saich 1935 and then George beautyman 1962 I don’t know of any others x
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Marie birth was 5 oct I think u might have it maybe instead of using harriet she used Annie as 1st name it’s to late for me to call her and ask exact date of nans birthday
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Another entry but his year of birth 1883,
mentions he is married to Annie Jaeger born Newport, Yorks Eng. resides at 12 Salmon Terrace Liverpool Street Hull has following children Marie Jaeger born 5th October 1912 Hull England
Edward Joseph Jaeger
Birth Date 3 May 1883
Birth Place East St. Louis, Illinois
Residence Newcastle, Eng.
Civil Date 10 Sep 1915
Thanks Ladyhawk. That is great information.
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Thank you for helping means a lot to her
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Edward Joseph Jaeger’s medal card
RS2 No. 853321
Place of birth : Eutawville, South Carolina
Medal Ribbons awarded 12.8.1919 - Mercantile Marine Office, Victoria Docks
** Harriet Ann married in 1924 - Victoria, Docks, St Luke (Ladyhawk’s earlier post)
Where was Harriet living in 1921?
Was she a widow then?
Here is Edward Jaeger, a Ship’s Cook, arriving in Boston, U S in 1920
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVMP-ZN75
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Where was Harriet living in 1921?
Was she a widow then?
Living West Ham posted at reply 17
free to search this confirms year & place of birth
West Ham, Essex & London
Harriett Ann Jaegar 1893 Yorkshire
Marie E Jaegar 1912 Hull
Here is Edward Jaeger, a Ship’s Cook, arriving in Boston, U S in 1920
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVMP-ZN75
Good find Heywood
Couldn’t find a death in UK wonder if Edward died between 1920/1921 in US
Added death could be between 1920 - 1924 ;)
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Recorded as married in last census.
Parents "both alive"
SS
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This is transcribed on Anc*y giving address
Massachusetts, U.S., Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists, 1820-1963
Edward Jaeger, record shows his occ Ship’s cook
Nationality American
Arrival Age 36
Birth Place USA
Residence Place 34 Ethel Rd Custom House
Arrival Date 30 Mar 1920
Arrival Place Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Ship Mary
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Edward still alive 25th January 1922.
For those with Anc*
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7484/images/31691_B017724-00507?treeid=&personid=&rc=&queryId=e86f9950-f7bd-46e5-a9b1-14a73f182683&usePUB=true&_phsrc=vJV160&_phstart=successSource&pId=7880829
SS
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This could also be Edward, same height 5.8 as above record occ 1st Cook
Edward Jaeger Age 38
Port of Departure Puerto Lobos, Mexico
Arrival Date 25 Jan 1922
Port of Arrival New Orleans, Louisiana
Ship Name Mattole
New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S., Passenger Lists, 1813-1963
Snap SS was also posting :)
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Just told her all the info you all gave she said oh I remember being told harriets daughter marie was born 1912 in a place for unmarried mothers somewhere and that marie parents married the following year which was 1913 u guys definitely found right ones xx
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Birth
Marie E Jaeger 1912 Sculcoates
The mother’s maiden name is Evans.
From GRO indexes you can get a digital image of b/c cost £3.00
https://www.gro.gov.uk
Just told her all the info you all gave she said oh I remember being told harriets daughter marie was born 1912 in a place for unmarried mothers somewhere
As mentioned previously if you want to obtain a copy of her birth certificate to see what it says you can obtain a digital image from GRO indexes but you do need to be registered (free to do so)
Digital Image (JPEG)
Image of a record that can not be used for official identification e.g. if applying for a passport, driving licence, or where required to give notice of marriage
Cost £3.00. Image available to view once payment is complete and a link to the image is provided on the order confirmation screen
added
EVANS, HARRIET ANN SMITH - No mother's maiden name.
GRO Reference: 1895 S Quarter in HOWDEN Volume 09D Page 99
If you want to obtain Harriet's birth certificate it is also available as a digital image from GRO indexes
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She ordering today x
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She ordering today
Please come back and let us know how you got on :)
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Here is a possibility for Harriet Ann Evans in Sculcoates
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7TS-VPM
She would be best to purchase the Certificate/s to confirm.
For info. as per the 1911 census above here's the birth entry for Harriet's brother Edward
EVANS, EDWARD SMITH EVANS -
GRO Reference: 1892 D Quarter in HOWDEN Volume 09D Page 89
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I have tried searching for Mary Ann Evans before her relationship with James Smith but not much luck.
Perhaps she was never married and widowed as children ‘s births found indicate no maiden name.
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I have tried searching for Mary Ann Evans before her relationship with James Smith but not much luck.
Perhaps she was never married and widowed as chikdren’s births found indicate no maiden name.
This is the other child's birth entry from the link to the 1901 census you posted, again no mother's maiden name
EVANS, GEORGE HENRY -
GRO Reference: 1891 M Quarter in HOWDEN Volume 09D Page 88
1901 4459/13/5
Wallingfen, Yorkshire
James Smith, head, single
Mary A Evans, servant, widow, b Stockport
Several children all recorded by initials and surname Evans including H A S Evans, 5 yrs
So that will be Harriet Ann.
added
there's another daughter H S Evans born 1885 not found her birth reg. there is this one but she has a mmn ???
SMITH, HENRIETTA mmn WILD
GRO Reference: 1885 J Quarter in HOWDEN Volume 09D Page 91
She's Henrietta Smith Evans on 1891 census posted previously by Heywood
James Smith 39 Head
Mary Ann Evans 43 Mistress
Joseph Smith Evans 8 Son>>>>>>>>>>>>not found his birth reg either
Henrietta Smith Evans 6 Daughter
George Henry Evans 3 mths Son
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Definitely will keep u updated she coming tonight to order some bits anything we find I’ll put on here thank you all so much at mo can’t see from what u all found there is no connection to any of them being related to castle Howard and gg grandmother being a lady and giving up her title but hopefully can find it x
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Are you subscribed to any genealogy sites?
This is from Anc*y London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Marie E Beautyman (husband with her)
Electoral Date 1964/65
Street Address 17 Barrington Road
Ward or Division/Constituency Newham
County or Borough East Ham, England
Same years living at No 13 Barrington Road is
Harriet Ann JONES with two males surname SAICH
(I would assume the two males are her grandchildren, they have the same names as two of Marie E Saich nee Jaeger’s children - see FreeBMD for their full names
surname Saith b1940 E. Ham & surname Saich b1941 E. Ham mmn Jaeger)
Harriett Ann Jaeger
Victoria Docks, St Luke, Essex
Father James Smith Evans
Spouse St Clair Samuel Jones
Essex, England, Church of England Marriages, 1754-1937
Image is here but you have to pay to view
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tbo/
Can just make out that Harriet is a widow
This is from F M P Essex Marriages And Banns 1537-1935
Its only a transcript of the 1924 marriage
Harriett Ann JAEGER W Residence 37 Coolfin Rd
Father James Smith EVANS occ Labourer
Married 18 Sep 1924 St., Luke Victoria Docks
St Clair Samuel JONES B residence 60 Wardford Rd
Father Butcher JONES occ seaman
Death
JONES, ST. CLAIR SAMUEL Age 73
GRO Reference: 1951 S Quarter in EAST HAM Volume 05A Page 14
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That’s amazing thank you so much x
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Just reading back over bits in the 1891 census on her it says harriets dad is James smith evans think I see a Mary ann as mother but 1901 or 1911 she not there but where Mary was it says mistress (naughty girl) tried to find marriage for them and can’t but can’t find anything on Mary ann
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I couldn’t see one either……..1911 census has Mary’s name listed first says married 40 years
10 children 6 living 4 died
Did you purchase the digital image for Harriet’s birth to see what it says
Is there a father named?
Does it list mother as Mary Ann Evans formally ?
I’ve not found Mary Ann Evans or James Smith on 1871 census ???
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I’m waiting for her to pop round see what she has I don’t know what harriets mum name was I was helped on here xx
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I have tried searching for Mary Ann Evans before her relationship with James Smith but not much luck.
Perhaps she was never married and widowed as chikdren’s births found indicate no maiden name.
This is the other child's birth entry from the link to the 1901 census you posted, again no mother's maiden name
EVANS, GEORGE HENRY -
GRO Reference: 1891 M Quarter in HOWDEN Volume 09D Page 88
1901 4459/13/5
Wallingfen, Yorkshire
James Smith, head, single
Mary A Evans, servant, widow, b Stockport
Several children all recorded by initials and surname Evans including H A S Evans, 5 yrs
So that will be Harriet Ann.
added
there's another daughter H S Evans born 1885 not found her birth reg.
She's Henrietta Smith Evans on 1891 census posted previously by Heywood
James Smith 39 Head
Mary Ann Evans 43 Mistress
Joseph Smith Evans 8 Son>>>>>>>>>>>>not found his birth reg either
Henrietta Smith Evans 6 Daughter
George Henry Evans 3 mths Son
There’s a 1903 marriage for a Joseph Smith Evans
father James Smith Evans
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:66GR-6NVN
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Do u think she had a relationship with a relative with one of hubbys relatives after he died could be a possibility my head going everywhere lol
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The births we have so far found have been left blank for mother's maiden name so that usually means a child is illegitimate so that could mean that EVANS is Mary Ann's actual surname.
Another options is that although it notes James Smith as single he was actually married and therefore
not able to marry Mary and on subsequent censuses used Mary's surname Evans. ???
Going to check again if I can find a birth entry for Jospeh Smith Evans and Henrietta Smith Evans :-\
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Oh wow and thank you x
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I was thinking that Mary Ann might have described herself as a widow rather than single - but you would wonder why.
I have searched several times for them in 1871.
I think the oldest child we have on censuses, is 1881 -James, 8 yrs b Birmingham but according to 1911, there had been some children's deaths.
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Definitely wierd one maybe this is the one who didn’t want to be called lady as one of the gt grandmothers so story was told was a cousin to lord of Glossop and relative to lords of castle Howard
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There is a tree for Joseph Smith Evans which gives his birthdate as 20th September 1881 - taken from another record but that record gives 1882.
Looking at Howden births, there is a birth and death in 1881 for
Louisa Evans Smith mmn Evans - born and died September quarter 1881
I can’t see anything yet for Joseph whose birth would be one year later.
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Previously posted 1881 census Registration district Howden
Piece 4738
Folio 7
Page number 8
James Smith 28 Head Wallsutton? Norfolk
Mary A. Evans 33 Housekeeper Stockport, Cheshire
James Evans 8 Son Birmingham
Fredk. Evans 3 Son Leeds
I think this is the above Frederick's death entry
Frederick Smith Evans died age 9 (born c1878)
Mar 1887 Howden 9d 66
not found a birth registration for him ???
Another child perhaps
Minnie Smith Evans Jun 1887 Howden 9d 98 .... can't find this entry on GRO ???
looks as if Minnie Evans died age 2 Sep 1889 Howden 9d 64
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Another child perhaps
Minnie Smith Evans Jun 1887 Howden 9d 98 .... can't find this entry on GRO ???
looks as if Minnie Evans died age 2 Sep 1889 Howden 9d 64
1887 Baptism Howden
father James, labourer mother Mary Ann
Minnie Evans born 20 April 1887
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:66B6-YNPC
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Just got off the phone from her she said harriets mum was related to Howard’s /Glossop she somehow thinks elizabeth and the surname talbot rings a bell also harriets mum died in 1918 and didn’t want to be part of the title of glossop and harriets dad was a horse surgeon evans.
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Harriets mum was 71 when died she said
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I was hoping to find one of the earlier births to check on GRO to see what it reveals but couldn’t find anything definite so I obtained Harriet’s
Birth
EVANS, HARRIET ANN SMITH - No mother's maiden name.
GRO Reference: 1895 S Quarter in HOWDEN Volume 09D Page 99
When and Where born
Sixth August 1895 Wallingfew R.S. D.
Harriet Ann Smith girl
father name left blank
Name & maiden surname of Mother
Mary Ann EVANS, hawker
Informant M A Evans mother, Wallingfew
So perhaps ordering the 1912 digital image of Marie Elizabeth Jaeger birth to see what that reveals
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In 1911, Mary Ann is recorded as Maria Ann.
Death 1918, Sculcoates
Maria Ann Evans , 71 yrs
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Oh wow that was quick x
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Sorry will hawker mean her maiden name
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Sorry will hawker mean her maiden name
No
Mary Ann Evans occupation on 1891 census was Hawker of small wares
Occupation definition
Hawker: a travelling Pedlar who sold wares on the street, or a person who trained hawks for hunting.
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In 1911, Mary Ann is recorded as Maria Ann.
Death 1918, Sculcoates
Maria Ann Evans , 71 yrs
I wonder if this is James’ death entry
EVANS, JAMES SMITH age 85
GRO Reference: 1932 S Quarter in SCULCOATES Volume 09D Page 149
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Possibly think she orders some certificates yesterday
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Not sure yet how this surname fits unless Henrietta was married previously :-\
James & Mary Ann daughter named Henrietta Smith Evans born c1885
Vauxhall Grove Hull, Holy Trinity and St Mary, Yorkshire & Yorkshire (East Riding)
Charles E O Connor Head General labourer Tacoma U S a Visitor
Henrietta O Connor Wife Newport Yorkshire
Novina S O Connor Daughter Yorkshire Hull
Eileen V O Connor Daughter Yorkshire Hull
James E H O Connor Son Yorkshire Hull
Married 6 years 3 children living
Jun 1907
O'CONNOR Eileen Virginia Sculcoates 9d 171 mmn EVANS
Marriage Mar 1905
FAWCETT Mary Elizabeth
Holmes Herbert
Names on same page
O'Connor Charles Edward Sculcoates 9d 221
Robertsen Henrietta Evans
Can’t post details of latest census James is in Sculcoates so is his daughter
Free to search shows year & place of birth
Henrietta O'Connor 1885 Newport, Yorkshire
James Evans 1847 Wisbech, Cambridgeshire
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I’ll . thank you x
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Update harriet ann birth is just mothers name Mary ann evans but harriet was registered harriet ann smith
Marie was born at her mothers house 1912 at 3 balder on buildings Liverpool Street
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Harriets mother death registered 18 nov 1918 at 10 liggier or liggens grove Liverpool Street son James in attendance
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Marie was born at her mothers house 1912 at 3 balder on buildings Liverpool Street
So the same address as the 1911 census for Harriet Ann S EVANS posted previously
Maria Ann Evans Age 63
Widow b Stockport, Cheshire
3 Baldersons Buildings Liverpool St Hull
Others in the household
James Smith Evans 64 Head
Edward S Evans 18 Son
Harriet Ann S Evans 16 Daughter Newport Brough, Yorkshire
What was Marie's exact date of birth on the 1912 certificate?
Was her mother named Harriet Ann Smith JAEGER formerly EVANS?
Who was named as her father?
What was his occupation?
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No father on harriets
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Maria date was 5th oct 1912
Harriet was 6 august registered 10 sep 1895
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No father on harriets
Thank you I know that as I posted the details previously
what about Marie's 1912 birth certificate
how was her mother's name written on the certificate - was it Harriet Ann Smith Jaeger formally Evans?
What details of Marie's father? Was he Edward Joseph Jaeger? What occupation did he have?
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Just waiting for her to call me back
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Harriets mother death registered 18 nov 1918 at 10 liggier or liggens grove Liverpool Street son James in attendance
He must be the James from 1881 census I don’t think his birth reg has been found
Previously posted on the thread
1881 census Registration district Howden
Piece 4738 Folio 7 Page number 8
James Smith 28 Head Wallsutton? Norfolk occ gen lab.
Mary A. Evans 33 widow Housekeeper Stockport, Cheshire
James Evans 8 Son Birmingham
Fredk. Evans 3 Son Leeds
I think this is the above Frederick's death entry
Frederick Smith Evans died age 9 (born c1878)
Mar 1887 Howden 9d 66
not found a birth registration for Frederick ???
I think Heywood mentioned earlier on in the thread that James & Mary Ann not found on 1871 census - I’ve not found them either ???
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I was trying to find her previous marriage as when she with James smith she’s a widow and he is head
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If she was a widow, the children’s births would show her maiden name.
I think the ones found show Evans if registered as Smith or none if they were registered as Evans.
Perhaps trying to collate the births might be useful.
There should be 10 children with 6 still living in 1911.
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Maria Ann Evans buried 23 Nov 1918 at the Western Cemetery, Hull
Died 18 Nov
Age 71
Widow
Residence 10 Lizzies Grove Liverpool St
Cause of Death Senile Decay
Informant James S Evans (Hawker)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G96P-F9K9
Burial of James Smith Evans, 15 July 1932
Died 12 July
Age 85
Pensioner
Residence 108a Somerset St
Cause of Death Senile Decay
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L96P-DQTF
Buried in save grave with Maria Ann, 543 / 52425
Same undertakers, S Robinson & Son(s) in Hessle Road
Don't know if there are any others (I'm not up with the thread!)
Some of the Hull cemetery registers are now indexed on the FamilySearch website
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By the time of the third and final burial in 543 / 52425, it had become a public grave.
Robert Nevins Henderson, age 71, on 4 April 1939
Last entry
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G96P-DQCJ
Not indicated on the earlier burial entries. Perhaps they purchased it for 20 years only? :-\
Graves register
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSGK-S3ZR-H
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Oh wow thank you so much
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Maria Ann Evans buried 23 Nov 1918 at the Western Cemetery, Hull
Died 18 Nov
Age 71
Widow
Residence 10 Lizzies Grove Liverpool St
Cause of Death Senile Decay
Informant James S Evans (Hawker)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G96P-F9K9
Burial of James Smith Evans, 15 July 1932
Died 12 July
Age 85
Pensioner
Residence 108a Somerset St
Cause of Death Senile Decay
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L96P-DQTF
Buried in save grave with Maria Ann, 543 / 52425
Same undertakers, S Robinson & Son(s) in Hessle Road
Don't know if there are any others (I'm not up with the thread!)
Some of the Hull cemetery registers are now indexed on the FamilySearch website
Well found Jon - poster said informant on d/c Marie was son James in attendance
I wonder who the informant was on James d/c
If she was a widow, the children’s births would show her maiden name.
I think the ones found show Evans if registered as Smith or none if they were registered as Evans.
Perhaps trying to collate the births might be useful.
There should be 10 children with 6 still living in 1911.
I’ve got these so far not all births reg found
Children of Mary Ann EVANS with possible father James SMITH
James Evans 7 Sep 1872 Birmingham
Large gap more children perhaps born & died
Fredk. Evans 1878 Leeds Frederick Smith Evans died age 9 1886
Joseph Smith Evans 20 Sep 1881/2 Newport, Yorkshire
Henrietta Smith Evans 28 Jan 1885 Newport Yorkshire
Minnie Smith Evans 20 April 1887 died age 2 1889 baptism f James m Mary Ann
George Henry Evans 12 Jan 1891 Newport
Edward Smith Evans 1893 Newport
Harriett Ann Smith Evans Newport 6 Aug 1895>>>NO father named on b/c mother Mary Ann EVANS
Heywood mentioned another possibility
Louisa Evans Smith 1881 died September 1881
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Just waiting for her to call me back
Did you get a call back?
No father on harriets
Thank you I know that as I posted the details previously
what about Marie's 1912 birth certificate
how was her mother's name written on the certificate - was it
Harriet Ann Smith Jaeger formally Evans?
What details of Marie's father?
Was he Edward Joseph Jaeger?
What occupation did he have?
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Marie Elizabeth jaeger mother registered her formally evans father down as fisherman
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Marie Elizabeth jaeger mother registered her formally evans father down as fisherman
Thank you as you’ve not posted parents first names I assume she was a Harriet Ann and father was Edward Joseph
Re: your opening post quote “ born a lady oh Glossop a cousin to the lord of Glossop and from the Howard’s family” with everything that’s been found starting with Marie Elizabeth Jaeger born 1912 there doesn’t appear to be any connection to Howard/Glossop that I can see :-\
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A baptism for Marie, 25 October 1912, at St. Mary and St. Peter Dairycoates (Newington)
Marie Elizabeth
Parents Edward Joseph & Harriet Ann Jaeger
Abode 3 Baldersons Buildings, Liverpool St
Father a Fisherman
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Thank you xx
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Thank you all so much for ur time and help
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Thank you all so much for ur time and help
Your welcome.
Are you happy that the correct person/s have been found? If there’s any further help needed please come back and ask :)
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Yes very happy and thank u if I can find anything else I will definitely ask thank you so much for all ur help x
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Not sure yet how this surname fits unless Henrietta was married previously :-\
James & Mary Ann daughter named Henrietta Smith Evans born c1885
Vauxhall Grove Hull, Holy Trinity and St Mary, Yorkshire & Yorkshire (East Riding)
Charles E O Connor Head 1876 General labourer Tacoma U S a Visitor
Henrietta O Connor Wife 1885 Newport Yorkshire
Novina S O Connor Daughter 1906 Yorkshire Hull
Eileen V O Connor Daughter 1908 Yorkshire Hull
James E H O Connor Son 1909 Yorkshire Hull
Married 6 years 3 children living
Jun 1907
O'CONNOR Eileen Virginia Sculcoates 9d 171 mmn EVANS
Marriage Mar 1905
FAWCETT Mary Elizabeth
Holmes Herbert
Names on same page
O'Connor Charles Edward Sculcoates 9d 221
Robertsen Henrietta Evans
Can’t post details of latest census James is in Sculcoates so is his daughter
Free to search shows year & place of birth
Henrietta O'Connor 1885 Newport, Yorkshire
James Evans 1847 Wisbech, Cambridgeshire
Have just found the marriage to view online didn’t spot it before ::)
Henrietta not previously married so where does surname Robertson fit in with this family ???
Address matches 1911 census for Marie Ann & James Smith Evans and that of the latest census for a Henrietta O’Connor 1885 & a James Evans 1847 :-\
Henrietta Evans Roberson Age 19 single
Residence 3 Balderston Terrace, Liverpool ST
Father James Robertson, deceased occupation confectioner
Married 15 Jan 1905 Newington, St John the Baptist
Spouse Charles Edward O’Connor, 29, fisherman
Spouse's marital status B
Spouse's residence 3 Balderston Terrace, Liverpool St
Spouses father Cornelius O’Connor, farmer
Henrietta can be found on 1939 Register Henrietta Oconnor [Hill] 1885, she remarried 1941, with her
James Evans b1872 (this must be her brother)
This is her death giving dob, not found her birth reg. on GRO indexes
Henrietta Hill
Death Age 87
Birth 28 Jan 1885
Mar 1972 Hull Yorkshire East Riding Volume 2a Page 546
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Early christmas present Ladyhawk ;D
SS
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Great - but formerly what?
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WILD as per gro record online.
SS
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Thanks - was just checking again. What a puzzle.
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Thanks SS - too early to mention 🤶
Heywood this family certainly is a puzzle ::)
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There is this birth entry Stockport
WILD, MARY ANN mmn TAYLOR
GRO Reference: 1848 M Quarter in STOCKPORT Volume 19 Page 261
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It's been a nice sunny day here, with a little time on my hands have drawn up a list of children to James & Mary Ann. I can modify if other's send or post additions etc. Deaths in red
1 James Evans 7.9.1872 (1939 register) on 1881 census aged 8 born Birmingham. Died 1951 Hull
2 Frederick Evans c1878 Leeds on 1881 census, died aged 9 Howden 1887
3 Louisa Evans Smith 1881-1881 Howden
4 Joseph Smith Evans 20.08.1882 Newport--marries 1903
5 Henrietta Smith 28.1.1885--details known
6 Minnie Smith Evans. Born 29.4.1887, baptised 16.5.1887-image on FindMyPast Died aged 2 1889
7 George Henry Evans (dob 12.1.1891) Howden died 1955 Hull
8 Edward Smith Evans dq 1892 Howden--died 14th November 1916 France & Flanders
9 Harriet Ann Evans jq 1895 Howden
Seemingly a 10th child according to 1911 census. Suspect born & died 1872-1878.
SS
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There is this birth entry Stockport
WILD, MARY ANN mmn TAYLOR
GRO Reference: 1848 M Quarter in STOCKPORT Volume 19 Page 261
There are 2 birth registrations, and 2 deaths, just checked that.
WILD, MARY ANN TAYLOR
GRO Reference: 1848 M Quarter in STOCKPORT Volume 19 Page 261
WILD, MARY ANN TAYLOR
GRO Reference: 1849 J Quarter in STOCKPORT Volume 19 Page 299
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WILD, MARY ANN 0
GRO Reference: 1849 S Quarter in STOCKPORT Volume 19 Page 204
WILD, MARY ANN 0
GRO Reference: 1850 M Quarter in STOCKPORT Volume 19 Page 243
SS
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Is this Mary’s ann Evan parents
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So this means Mary must of married a evans as she’s a widow name evans living with smith I think I’m right
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Probably not as we have 2 births and 2 deaths in Stockport.
SS
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Ok I’ll keep looking thank you x
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Possibly James Smith/James Smith Evans in 1871
Name James Smith
Age 21
Estimated Birth Year abt 1850
Gender Male
Where born Cambridge Wisbeach, England
Registration Number 196
Registration district Fraserburgh
Civil parish Vessels
County Aberdeenshire
Occupation Seaman
ED France garden
Household schedule number 1
Line 4
SS
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Can I get help on who James smith married the son born 1872 please x
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Can I get help on who James smith married the son born 1872 please x
James Evans born 1872 with is married sister Henrietta IF he married it would be after 1939.
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Why do you think he married? I have been searching for him between 1881 census and 1939 war register. I think I have found him as a single man in 1901/11/21 living in the household of a John James Alcock and his wife Alice nee' MANN. Funny thing is his brother Joseph Smith Evans in 1939 has living in his household a Lancelot MANN born 1900. Trying to link the Manns.
SS
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Oh thank u all x don’t know why I thought he married x
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Can I get help on who James smith married the son born 1872 please
Oh thank u all don’t know why I thought he married
As mentioned don't think that James Evans married he was single 1939
For info.
Looks as if the Evans brothers Edward & George married sisters Zillah Marie & Alice Dainty
Have added all the known marriages in date order
EVANS Joseph S HALDENBY Ann 1903 Holy Trinity
Details given on the thread
Father James Smith EVANS, occ labourer
ROBERTSON Henrietta E O'CONNOR Charles E 1905 St John (Newington) Hull
Details of Henrietta Evans Robertson’s marriage given on the thread
father James ROBERTSON, deceased, occ confectioner.
Henrietta remarried surname HILL 1941 Hull Register Offices or Registrar Attended
EVANS George Henry DAINTY Zillah Maria 1910 Sculcoates Register Offices or Registrar Attended
EVANS Harriet A S JAEGER Edward J 1913 Sculcoates Register Offices or Registrar Attended
Harriet remarried 1924 St Clair Samuel JONES details given on the thread
father James Smith EVANS occ Labourer
EVANS Edward S DAINTY Alice 1916 Hull Register Offices or Registrar Attended
You would need to obtain the marriages certs for Edward & George to see who was named as their father
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Thank you x
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Found something interesting in 1953 Henrietta is living 3 ballerina buildings she now Henrietta hill but living with her is a grandson Peter boyles o Connor . He is arrested for trying to gas his nan and blow the house up
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Found something interesting in 1953 Henrietta is living 3 ballerina buildings she now Henrietta hill but living with her is a grandson Peter boyles o Connor . He is arrested for trying to gas his nan and blow the house up
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Balderson buildings sorry
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O'CONNOR, PETER BOYES 1929
GRO Reference: DOR Q1/2008 in HULL (5501B) Reg 1B003 Entry Number 500665943
SS
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Thank you x
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Intrigued to find out if he was sentenced found he died in his 50.s