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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: Welly07 on Monday 22 July 24 13:27 BST (UK)
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Hello lovely people
I have had help with this family as I keep hitting brick walls as they all seem to go by different names and iv hit another brick wall
Francis Henry George Rayer born around 1875
Father is logged as John Rayer.
Francis goes by the name of George Henry Rayner in census with his family when he's married.
He marries Eliza Parton in 1895 both living in ormside side street at the time and continue to live in Camberwell.
I can't not find a record of his birth with the correct year give or take 5 years each way under either name in born in Sutton Surrey as he states on all census from 1901 onwards
I can't find him prior to his marriage on any census and at a complete loss
Please help
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QUESTION - Is this family surname Rayer or Rayner? If it's the latter, you might want to edit your subject line, to avoid any confusion.
Also, what is the occupation of father John Rayner on the 1895 marriage record?
Here's the Rayner family in trouble with the law in 1923. The address here matches where they're living in the 1921 census.
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South London Observer
06 August 1937
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Have you traced the Marriage witness William John Rayner?
I may be well off here but worth posting.
WILLIAM JOHN Rayner bapt 1 Feb. 1885 St Nicholas, Sutton
Mother ALICE Rayner
Born 23 June 1876
1881 Census
Robin Hood 16 Poplar Cottage, Sutton
Alice Rainer 26 Head Mar no occp
George Rainer 5 Son
John Rainer 3 Son
All born Sutton
Alice married twice quickly;
29 May 1882 to William EPHGRAVE and as a Widow 26 Dec. 1887 to John SMEE
Her Father was THOMAS Rayner so was unm not married as 1881 Census has.
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The newspaper reports are definitely the correct family , thank you for that
I had a quick look at the witness William john Rayner but didn't get very far as not the same father
I have a look at the one above , thank you
George Rayer is still a mystery of where he came from
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1891 census - John & Alice Smee living at 19, Stockwell Street, Camberwell.
George (age 17) and John (age 15) are recorded as "Smee". Both are errand boys.
This puts George in the Camberwell area, where he shows up in 1901-1921 census records.
As for the 1895 marriage record, George may have invented a father named John.
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Thank you , I'll have a look into the smee's
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Thanks for following up Ashtone while I was off line.
As John Smee was his stepfather from 1887 onwards that may be why he named his Father as a John at Marriage.
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In 1911 John is with his Sister Elizabeth Dedman a widow.
Married 15 years, no** children
Havent found Alice yet.
A Dedman is witness to his Marriage to Alice + a Rayner also.
Initials are hard to make out H Deman/E Rayner?
Got her under Alice Drew, image is Smee
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So I have looked into them and does seem like there both staying else where in 1911.
Going to try search the 1921 census for them and also looking at possible census for alice before she had kids, I found her in the 1871 census with her father and siblings but there is also a granddaughter living with them and checking the 1861 alice seems to be the oldest child.
She may have had a child at 16/17 years of age
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1921 census - John & Alice Smee are living in Chertsey.
Alice is age 65. Birth year 1856. Birthplace is Sutton.
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Thank you, I hadn't checked yet
Was looking at baptism of William john Rayner, abot his there is an William and Elizabeth Rayner baptised son Frederick on the same day both living in Sutton.
And if the census I'm looking at it would seem Alice does have a brother called William who marries an Elizabeth
Seems that we may be on the right lines of this
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I found her in the 1871 census with her father and siblings but there is also a granddaughter living with them and checking the 1861 alice seems to be the oldest child.
This may be another possibility for Alice (unless it's also the record you found) --
1871 census - George Street, Sutton
Alice is age 17. Living with widowed mother Mary Rayner (age 40) and younger siblings.
Alice and Mary are recorded as servants (with "Late" written above, on the census image).
There is a granddaughter Elizabeth with them, age 0.
July 1870 baptism for Mary Elizabeth Rayner in Epsom.
Mother's name Alice Rayner (single woman).
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1861 census - Main Road, Sutton
Thomas & Mary Rayers, with four children. Alice is age 7.
Father Thomas Rayner (age 36) is an ostler. Birthplace is Croydon.
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Back to the 1911 John Drew says he has had no children from his Marriage so George/John are just children of Alice.
Alice is with the Drew family. Eliza Rayner married George Drew 1885 (image on Anc)
Elizas Father THOMAS a Ostler
Looks like Alice a witness.
1871 Eliza is with mother Mary, Sister Alice and siblings.